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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

republicans, over here!

603 replies

arghpleasestop · 09/09/2022 21:54

OK, it's been 24 hours now.

Can I say it yet?

Long live the king - any king! - you must be joking. How on earth can it be the 21st century and there is still a hereditary monarchy of 'special people with the right blood' who wear crowns, live in palaces and play a formal role in politics?

I can see from other threads that others feel upset and are following it all closely. This thread is not to deny those feelings and for sure Queen E worked hard shaking hands for a long time - but to say, WTF, bring on the republic please.

OP posts:
Festoonlights · 10/09/2022 20:30

cakeorwine · 10/09/2022 20:12

I think the UK would carry on without a Royal Family.

Having a Head of State who claims to be there by the divine right of God is not a good system of democracy.

I don't think the UK would fail just because we decided to have a Head of State like Ireland.

Why do you think we would fail?

Because it’s entirely feasible the way things are going that we could end up with someone like Trump.

cakeorwine · 10/09/2022 20:33

Festoonlights · 10/09/2022 20:30

Because it’s entirely feasible the way things are going that we could end up with someone like Trump.

You don't understand what the Constitution is that would define the role and power of a Head of State is then?

You do understand what the Irish Head of State can and cannot do?

Gruffling · 10/09/2022 20:40

Agreed that now is a good time to start having conversations about a republic. We can respect the life of Elizabeth and her family's grief, but those things are separate from our governance.

I read that the newly appointed Prince of Wales will now own land and assets worth £1 billion pounds via acquisition of Duchy of Cornwall... it's time for some of that land and wealth to come back to the people.

Novella4 · 10/09/2022 20:50

I haven't read the full thread but if I hear one more royalist sap trot out queen / Charles are 'public servants' I'll scream

This seems to be the current line from royal PR

Novella4 · 10/09/2022 21:09

AuxArmesCitoyens · 10/09/2022 16:28

I was just on a thread about that incident and mumsnet zapped it .
Why?
It's gone viral anyway .

TarasHarp55 · 10/09/2022 21:27

HMSSophia · 10/09/2022 18:48

We have to have a head of state. Without the monarchy we'd be looking at hmmm Johnston Or Mary berry.

But now we're looking at Charles....and his extended family

MarieIVanArkleStinks · 10/09/2022 21:30

The word loves our royal family.

It really, really doesn't. I've lived overseas for some time. And I can assure you, the rest of the world is primarily concerned with its own domestic affairs. It is not invested in an old woman, on a rain-soaked island in the North Atlantic, living in a grey castle and wearing a shiny hat.

HappyMackerel · 10/09/2022 21:33

I agree with you. We need to get rid of the monarchy.

Legrandsophie · 10/09/2022 21:34

@VivX

You are dreadfully naive. They don’t have to be sold but they will be. Why would the government (especially if times get tight again) pay to keep numerous larger, expensive building that weren’t being used for state business.

Unless you are intending to have a President live in Buckingham Palace. Even then they wouldn’t need Kensington Palace, Clarence House or any of the other official residences. They get paid for now because they are used for official duties as directed by the government.

Everything would slowly but surely be auctioned off to foreign investors and the money frittered away on paying government cronies for contracts that are never fulfilled.

You are a fool if you think scrapping to monarchy would see a penny extra in the pockets of the citizens of the U.K.

LePigeon · 10/09/2022 21:38

Legrandsophie · 10/09/2022 21:34

@VivX

You are dreadfully naive. They don’t have to be sold but they will be. Why would the government (especially if times get tight again) pay to keep numerous larger, expensive building that weren’t being used for state business.

Unless you are intending to have a President live in Buckingham Palace. Even then they wouldn’t need Kensington Palace, Clarence House or any of the other official residences. They get paid for now because they are used for official duties as directed by the government.

Everything would slowly but surely be auctioned off to foreign investors and the money frittered away on paying government cronies for contracts that are never fulfilled.

You are a fool if you think scrapping to monarchy would see a penny extra in the pockets of the citizens of the U.K.

Hello? The palaces would be open for tours all year round, which I'm sure would generate masses of income, especially from tourists.

Novella4 · 10/09/2022 21:40

I think we'll take our chances

Thanks for your concern though

girlfriend44 · 10/09/2022 21:41

cakeorwine · 09/09/2022 22:34

This morning, all the radio stations were just playing mournful music. Or sad songs. I think that the danger is the OTT reaction of the media to try to make people feel sad.

Yep and cancelling everything will make ppls life suffer. Mental health etc. It's not necessary.

TarasHarp55 · 10/09/2022 21:59

absolutelyanythingwilldo · 10/09/2022 09:31

Ah, so you're happy to recognise the cost of the royal family while ignoring the benefit? The UK government gets far more from the crown estate than they pay out to maintain the royals (like 3x more).

You can argue on moral grounds if you like, but the economics are not in your favour.

We'd get ALL the money from the crown estates if we didn't have them.

Discovereads · 10/09/2022 23:30

TarasHarp55 · 10/09/2022 21:59

We'd get ALL the money from the crown estates if we didn't have them.

Lol! No “we” (as in we the working class) would not see a penny. The MPs would sell the lands for pennies an acre to developers who’d then parcel them off to the highest bidder (usually foreign buyers) and the profits from the resale would go straight to the developers who’d then pay dividends on the MPs “investment portfolios”. The pennies an acre would be quickly spent on some Parliamentary vanity project like giving the MPs an inflation busting pay rise, padding out their expense accounts, perhaps getting a private jet for every cabinet member. And poooft! There goes much of our national heritage and lands into the hands of developers who’ll destroy the bits that are environmental conservation habitats, frack as much as possible (polluting and earth quaking for hectares around), and so on.

VivX · 10/09/2022 23:52

@Legrandsophie

You are dreadfully naive. They don’t have to be sold but they will be. Why would the government (especially if times get tight again) pay to keep numerous larger, expensive building that weren’t being used for state business.

And yet, you're here naively mainly concerned about what happens to the royal residences and where the president might have to live.

You do know that the crown estate is more than just the royal residences, don't you?

They're just the tip of the iceberg.
And in any case, as I and pps have mentioned, the royal residences could be opened to the public to help cover running costs.

The crown estate is worth billions and includes commercial and investment properties and is operated as a revenue generating commercial business in its own right.
Most people don't even know that it includes retail parks and shopping centres, offices and warehouses, (as well as a lot of land)

Incidentally, the crown estate can already sell land and property.
It doesn't need the abolition of the monarchy to sell things.

Unless you are intending to have a President live in Buckingham Palace. Even then they wouldn’t need Kensington Palace, Clarence House or any of the other official residences. They get paid for now because they are used for official duties as directed by the government.

If you've reached the level of making strawman arguments about the president having to live in Buckingham Palace because that's the only way "they get paid for", you've probably run out of sensible things to say about the matter.
A president doesn't need to live in Buckingham Palace for it to be the only way for Buckingham Palace to be paid for. And this applies to the other royal residences.

Everything would slowly but surely be auctioned off to foreign investors and the money frittered away on paying government cronies for contracts that are never fulfilled.

Government corruption regarding unfulfilled contracts is a separate issue. It's yet another logical fallacy to try and use it as an argument against abolishing the monarchy.

You are a fool if you think scrapping to monarchy would see a penny extra in the pockets of the citizens of the U.K.

Ah, now you're putting words into my mouth and then using that as a basis for a backhanded insult. I've not argued anywhere that the (or even a) reason for the abolition of monarchy would be so that citizens would see a penny extra in their pockets. Mainly because that's not how public sector funding works. When things are cut, the resulting saving is just redirected elsewhere.
Tax breaks are politically driven.

In any case, lots of things that are scrapped not because they generate significant savings.
Things get scrapped because there are better ways, better things that could be done with the money, or the thing has become obsolete.

There are many reasons why people argue for the abolition of the monarchy.
For example, just to name a few : So as not to subsidise an already privately wealthy family any further; Recognising that one family is not better than another because of an accident of birth; Not having an unelected head of state; Recognising that a monarch doesn't have a God-given "divine right"

beechie12 · 11/09/2022 01:58

I really find it hard to understand why humans need to be deferential. Why do they need a 'better' to be a subject to. Is a comfort thing? Evolution?

SheSaidHummingbird · 11/09/2022 02:30

Where have you guys been hiding?? I was about to dig a hole in the ground with a spoon and scream into it.

Festoonlights · 11/09/2022 06:10

SheSaidHummingbird · 11/09/2022 02:30

Where have you guys been hiding?? I was about to dig a hole in the ground with a spoon and scream into it.

Wow

Because someone died. Are you feeling okay?

Festoonlights · 11/09/2022 06:21

cakeorwine · 10/09/2022 20:33

You don't understand what the Constitution is that would define the role and power of a Head of State is then?

You do understand what the Irish Head of State can and cannot do?

A puppet head of state with no real authority does not, and will never fill me with confidence. I do not yearn to be any way like Ireland! Or any of these countries without a glittering royal family. Just staid men in suits that have power played their way to the top.

The Kings and Queens in this country are prepared all of their lives (in some cases for over seventy years) for the role, every day is devoted to learning every aspect of the job, and they offer an amazing diplomatic service at the highest level, putting the country's interests first and foremost.
One of the biggest draw to London is the Royal Family creating tens of millions of pounds in revenue.

Our country would be an infinitely more dull, rudderless, dangerous and disengaged from our long and incredible history. The fact that we have held on to such wonderful historical ties and traditions makes me feel part of something bigger and better than the present day. It goes well beyond the fashions and trends and offers us all a thread of security and comfort throughout our lives. Without a shadow of doubt, they bring so much to our country - and without them we would be infinitely poorer.

If you feel some random can rock up and do the same job as the Queen has done for seventy years, quite frankly you are totally and utterly deluded.

Novella4 · 11/09/2022 06:36

@Festoonlights

Basically a lot of waffle to say you like shiny things and politics bores you

The shiny things will still be there- provably . You can look at them.

The queen is no longer doing the job - so that's irrelevant.

And as for 'preparing' for the role ? Well charles couldn't even sign a piece a paper without gesturing rudely for a flunkie to pick something up -beneath him to do so
Marvellous .

Novella4 · 11/09/2022 06:38

And sorry to break it to you but q 'puppet' is a xactly what the royals are

We are constantly assured that they hae no power and no role in politics
Doesn't stop them changing laws to suit themselves of course .
I assume you'd like the royals to have actual power ?

Novella4 · 11/09/2022 06:46

@Festoonlights

If you feel some random can rock up and do the same job as the Queen has done for seventy years, quite frankly you are totally and utterly deluded

Yeah we saw that yesterday

Festoonlights · 11/09/2022 06:53

Nope, King Charles III has had no less than 73 years of training for the role he has just accepted as head of state. I can't see anything like that happening elsewhere! Not a chance. Some random rocks up and gets seven weeks at best.

The brilliant thing about the royal family is that it runs from birth, the child is learning all of the time how things work, how diplomacy is handled, the importance of connecting with the public. It starts from birth, but the time they reach the point of being crowned, they are ready in every sense of the word and are permanent, so therefore not replaced every few years by someone else. It is the permanency of the role that gives it the most value.

Festoonlights · 11/09/2022 06:59

I always wonder who these people are that are so desperate to get rid of our Royal family, I often find that they are jealous of what we have. Live in boring bland republics with no history and look on at ours with envy.

Our Royal family are not going to be replaced by a random any time soon, thank heavens. There is no public support whatsoever to make our country a republic. Most people love the Queen and her family, and feel deeply saddened by her passing - only reinforcing their connection to the RF. You don't have to agree with it, there are plenty of places you can live with a head of state that could be anyone (although strangely always usually a man) so I suggest your chances of the UK becoming a republic are around zero. So off you pop if you live here, and if you don't please stop interfering. It is none of your business.

Novella4 · 11/09/2022 07:00

I take it you are ignoring the evidence of the video ?
Guess you have to

1 day in and a viral video already .
Hmm all that 'training ' too

I'm sure you'd be happy for a vote on the matter of keeping the monarchy , wouldn't you ?
You are sure you would win so what's the issue ?

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