republicans, over here!

[arghpleasestop]

OK, it's been 24 hours now.

Can I say it yet?

Long live the king - any king! - you must be joking. How on earth can it be the 21st century and there is still a hereditary monarchy of 'special people with the right blood' who wear crowns, live in palaces and play a formal role in politics?

I can see from other threads that others feel upset and are following it all closely. This thread is not to deny those feelings and for sure Queen E worked hard shaking hands for a long time - but to say, WTF, bring on the republic please.

Completely agree.
I cannot understand how someone put on a stupid hat hundreds of years ago, stole land and wealth from other people by force, then declared that they were decreed by God as a ruler, and somehow we are still scraping to that idea in the 21st Century.
It's absurd.

Tradition is a weak excuse for allowing the monarchy to continue, as is "it doesn't cost you anything" etc.
The whole concept of inherited titles is ridiculous.

The fact that three MN threads filled up in about an hour really saddens me to be honest. Where is the depth of feeling for REAL issues that are going on in the world? Real wars, famine, climate issues, poverty? For a woman that 99.9% of people have never met and don't know?
The threads about people "shaking and crying" and "preparing their children"? Sorry, but that is just performative grief at it's highest.
Apart from her family and friends, her death does not mean anything to most people and changes their lives in no way.

I cannot get sad about a 96 year old unimaginably wealthy and privileged woman dying in one of her many castles surrounded by her family, staff and the best healthcare available.
It's not a "tragedy" and the whole world is not "grieving" as the press would have us believe.

Sorry to her immediate family as to any person when they die.
Her death means no less than the loss of ANY other human on this planet.

I'm here too. I find the amount of wealth that has been inherited and discussed over the last few days abhorrent. I find the pomp ridiculous. I find the fact that parliament has been dissolved to mourn for 17 days just awful when people are actually unable to afford to eat. That this man and his awful family have so much wealth solely due to the fact they were born in that role. And the continuous fawning on tv is just horrible.

I find the fact that an unarmed black man has been shot in (not) his car and there is no discussion awful. and the rest really. But I need to get on with my cleaning!

Would you have preferred Margaret Thatcher as President for Life or Jeremy Corbyn or Boris Johnson? The US got Trump and Nixon.

Why is the alternative to a monarch, a president? Why is the alternative to the King, A Trump? I don't understand why. (genuinely asking that). And Trump, and Boris and the rest were at least elected (albeit by a small proportion of the public). So yes I'd prefer an elected head of state with no inherited wealth, no castles, no bowing and no avoidance of inheritance tax.

In any case if it was down to me I'd also abolish the House of Lords.

This idea that kings and queens 'serve' the country/people is simply smoke and mirrors. It's the country and its people who serve THEM, and fund them too for that matter. I don't think showing up to glitzy events and cutting a few ribbons every now and then counts as 'serving' anyone. Funny though.

The competitive grief on mn is really getting on my nerves. And the royal arse kissing. Ive often wondered about the sanity of all those middle aged women who stand outside Buckingham Palace/Sandringham/Balmoral in all weathers, just to get a glimpse of one of them. Of course the people clinging onto William and Harry after Diana died and they did a walkabout were the worst. Sobbing at 2 young boys recently bereaved when they'd never met Diana. Anyway i also wondered at the mentality of those sorts...now they all seem to be on mn sobbing and being utterly bereft like its a competion

Weirdo's the lot of them

...and but for the grace of God, we almost ended with a Nazi for King.

At least a bad President can be got rid of, Trump nor Nixon were in for life but a Monarch is.

Any new system would have a 5 or 6 year term, no re election.

@Discovereads
A pure republic has also not worked at all well for many other countries as well. It’s not the fail safe, awesome, cannot go wrong solution you think it is. Look at how fucked up the US is, republic, how fucked up China is, republic, how fucked up Russia is, also a republic. Mexico, a republic also fucked up. You’re scared of a “King Andrew”, but we could easily end up with a President Putin in the U.K.

Nobody said that Britain had to copy China or Russia or Mexico. That's a straw man argument.
I'm also not scared of a "King Andrew" or any other specific individual member of that family, I just don't particularly want any of them.

Too, in most cases establishing a republic required genocide. Is it really worth it?

Again, there's no weird rule that says abolishing the monarchy means that genocide is required as part of the process.

It’s not like we have an absolute monarchy, we have a constitutional monarchy where 99% of royal power has been devolved to the Commons of Parliament..which is already Republican democratic system of government. In other words, the government we have is already 99% a republic and guess what we are fucked up too.

I know that Britain has a constitutional monarchy... still don't want a monarchy.

The House of Lords has been sidelined into an advisory body only- they cannot even delay a Act of the Commons for more than a year much less veto it. Out of 670 peers, only 92 are hereditary the rest are elected life peers by the Commons. The judiciary and Church of England are also completely already separate from and independent of the monarch. The royal family is required to be apolitical- they cannot even vote. Their function is ceremonial and also as a type of ambassador.

I'm not even going to start on a debate about the House of Lords... and so what that the royal family is required to be apolitical. The royal family do not have a monopoly on appearing to be apolitical.
And similarly, the judiciary or the Church of England's current status has really got nothing to do with abolishing the monarchy, but it's further proof that the monarchy are not actually required for any of these things to function in any practical sense.

Establishing a more pure 100% republic will only get rid of a ceremonial figurehead who represents history and tradition. A figurehead by the way, that we do not bankroll. They pay for themselves. No tax money that any “taxpayer” in all of U.K. supports the monarch or their family. And yes I suppose you could seize all their wealth and property, but why target them and not the rest of the ultra rich and aristocrats? The Duke of Buckingham is twenty times richer than the royal family. The ‘money’ they supposedly stole to become aristocrats was all spent centuries ago. The money they have now they made the same way as the Jeff Bezos and Elon Musks of the world. I’m reading a book on the aristocrats now and do you know how many started as wool merchants? Or stone masons? Most of them. The aristocrats we have today, are the Bezos of two centuries from now because he’s made more than enough money to last for generations of his family.

I'm quite okay with getting rid of the royal family as a ceremonial figurehead, I'm really not bothered about preserving the history and tradition of a royal family in the slightest.
The Crown Estate is not the private property of the monarch and it is formally accountable to Parliament.
Where do you think the funding for the sovereign grant comes from?

Is there even a current Duke of Buckingham? I'm not really sure how someone who died in the 1800s has any relevance.
But in any case, the fact that there are some wealthier aristocrats than the monarch doesn't validate monarchy in any way.

I don't really want to get into a side argument about Jeff Bezos and Elon Musk... other than to say, I wasn't holding them up as fine social and economic examples either.

The entirety of your arguments seem to be based on a series of logical fallacies that boil down to the "whataboutery" of a few examples of other countries/people/things that are bad and the faulty logic that because those examples exist, nobody should ever try and improve upon a situation.

Totally agree.
I can honestly say hand on heart that it the Queen had turned up across the street from me opening some building or other, I wouldn't have bothered to go out and have a look.
I live in Edinburgh and am totally dreading the entire nonsense involving Holyrood and St Giles, it's going to cause so much disruption to the city.
Cannot fathom the flag waving forelock tugging demonstrations for a family that literally does nothing.
Almost 20 roads are being closed, several schools along the route shut and so on. Total nonsense.

The maximum term of a US president is 8 years, though, not "life".

Nobody said that an elected president must stay in the role for life.

I just don’t like tradition and inherited wealth. Both outdated. Better to look forward not back.

Vivre La Republique.

Oh fab joining here so I can stop getting told off on other threads for not approving of bank holidays, enforced mourning, blah blah.
Cannot ever approve of a monarchy - I really dislike the embedded class system which filters from it.

@Legrandsophie
Anyone using Ireland as a great example of how to move to republic doesn’t understand the difference between Britain and Ireland. It is not the same. Would Ireland be a republic if it was their own monarchy that they were over throw king. I doubt it.

Can anyone point out an example of a country getting rid of their own monarchy in favour of a presidential system without E our nous bloodshed and death?

You're conflating the move to being a republic and actually being a republic.

Ireland is used as an example of how a republic could work in the present day but nobody is suggesting that the move to a UK republic be preceded by centuries of foreign occupation, an Easter Uprising and a war of independence.

There's no rule that says if Britain moves to being a republic there must first be a bloody battle (or genocide, as someone else mentioned)

If the country decided to move to a republic, then the necessary laws are passed and the royal family go off to live in Balmoral or Sandringham, which are both privately owned unlike the crown estate.
Bloodshed is not compulsory nor warranted.

Here’s a fact- in the real world the end of the monarchy would mean the short tears selling off of royal assets

The crown estate also doesn't have to be sold off, it could be held in public ownership and open to visitors - similar to how Hampton Court and the Tower of London operate.

The end of an era is right. With due respect at this time of bereavement, we are now allowed to speak about the RF, its institutions, cost, usefulness, the hangers on and so forth without fear of insulting or otherwise upsetting the late Queen.

I don't think people will be reluctant to speak their minds now. I doubt many rate C3rd yet, he is a man in a suit, boring bland and has nothing like the charisma the late Queen had. It will also be interesting to see if the press is as obsequious to C3rd and the RF as it was when HM was alive.

Times change. The older folk who lived through the war and witnessed the coronation are shuffling off, to be replaced with a generation who have the attention span of a newt. And I often include myself in that as I switch off anything that doesn't interest me immediately. I can't see Clarence House putting out TikTok videos or FB status, or Instagram updates WRT C3rd and consort Camilla. But stranger things have happened I suppose!

Has anyone seen Australia are already discussing and calling for a republic? 😬

Time for the country to consign this undemocratic institution to history where it belongs. From the Queen paying out millions to protect her alleged sex abuser son. Then the RF persistently quietly lobbying for tax exemptions on their huge estates , and holding millions in off shore bank accounts. And Charles and his carrier bags of cash!

DH and I went for a walk today, on the hills and to a local lake. It was so good to see that so many people were out and about enjoying the sunshine. Lots of people walking, a few mountain biking, some runners, lots of boats on the lake including a sailing class. The cafe was packed.

There may be an "outpouring of grief" but it was not in evidence. Many people have clearly shrugged it off and are getting on with their own lives. Fabulous.

Chas deffo has the common touch twitter.com/BBCLauraKT/status/1568571047892459523?t=QTU21Qrljs1SEw9ugk7hTg&s=19

Just been watching the news too. Many of the people laying flowers were taking pictures of themselves and their floral tributes as they were laying them.
Performative grieving for "likes" on social media.

Many of us have wanted one for years! However our PM has said now is not the time to make a decision so soon after the Queen's death (out of respect) but there will be a referendum during the government's second term in office. With two referendums coming up (Republic and Uluru Statement From The Heart) it will be interesting to see how everyone over here votes.

Camilla looks terrified. I wonder if he has a temper.

That is not a good look no matter what the circumstances. It makes him look so arrogant to be ordering his minions around with a terrible grimace of pure anger and impatience.

Not a good start anymore.

Just been watching the news too. Many of the people laying flowers were taking pictures of themselves and their floral tributes as they were laying them.
Performative grieving for "likes" on social media

I sincerely hope those spending money on flowers are getting zero help during this cost of living crisis.

Gos it's not even with a smile and gesture that he needs space. Just 'oh flunkey move this now'

I won't be mocking anyone over their grief, however I will say that now would be a good time to abolish the monarchy, and bring this embarrassing,undemocratic, tax-dodging, pervert protecting, elitism drenched anachronism to an end once and for all

Couldn't agree more.
The money all the pomp and ceremony this funeral will absorb, quickly followed by an expensive Coronation service, would better be spent on the NHS. It's getting absurd the way the queen is being talked about - she was no saint, and was more than compensated for her 'service'.......every member of her family benefitted from it with multiple mansions, the best healthcare and education money could buy, jobs for life, fantastically expensive weddings, funerals and birthday celebrations etc etc

.

I agree with this.

I hope Charles does make changes to the royal set up that are in line with the fact that it is 2022, and also somehow acknowledges that we are entering what is going to be a very hard time for a lot of people.