To think skin colour matters WAY more than people like to admit

[daysayso]

I am involved in marketing campaigns - I won't say what because it's outing but let's say I recently worked on a campaign where the service being provided had absolutely nothing to do with race (so it wasn't makeup or hair for example).

Yet the vast majority that responded were people of colour (Same as the person featured in the ad) and it made me think how much your life chances are still dictated by your skin colour.

People like to consider race more than they like to admit even in spaces where it has nothing to do with anything, people just seem to feel more 'comfortable' with their own.

I felt for the first time in a long time my success will in part depend on my skin colour because for whatever reason the majority of white people that saw this ad decided it wasn't for them on the basis I'm someone of colour.

Please no arguments I'm looking for a mature conversation and if you find the topic sensitive you need not respond

Just looking for others experiences really

This is an interesting thread at a time when we have the most diverse Cabinet in history, with no white people holding the top 4 jobs.

I don't know how many times we have to explain white privilege to people on MN.

When I was 17 I was obsessed with Viking's. I went into the centre of my large city at 9pm on a Friday night with a full size axe, blunted blade but still a massive stick with a huge bit of metal on the end. I walked all over this town with this, not one police person stopped me or asked me what I was doing. Could a 17 year old black male do that? How many people would stop them?
I see so much discrimination in my place of work. I work for a white male doctor, the majority of doctors in my hospital are South Asian. 90% of the time, the dr I work for will come down and tell the patient the exact same message as the one their regular doctor says day in day out and they find it 'so reassuring'. How many patients ask for a second opinion when they have a white male doctor? This is across the board, with white and black British patients. I would imagine not as many. Why do we take the white, male word to be reliable when we know from history that they are anything but?

When I think back to incidences my biases were brought to my attention, it's things like, my dentist has an English accent (don't live in the UK) and the familiarity at a vulnerable time is nice. Same when I had a baby in another country - I was wheeled into recovery while waiting for the epidural to wear off, and was greeted by a London accent and found it so comforting. No idea of the dude's ethnic origins, asian I think (I wasn't at my best!), the voice/accent was what boosted me.

It's not that in either case I think a local wouldn't be lovely too, but having that drop of home was definitely an extra thing that helped, much more important than just skin colour - which is very superficial, and immediately overridden when someone starts talking and you start building more of a picture about them.

@daysayso not just skin colour but race in general. I am faired skinned but, racially, I am East Asian (born in the UK). Stereotypes and bias are awful. “Positive” discrimination is also awful because it makes ethnic people a tick box for diversity in the workplace. As an aside, I’m not sure why “people of colour” instead of “Black” is catching in the UK (I know people of colour is a term in the US). It sounds too close to “coloured” which I thought was offensive in the UK?

When I was 17 I was obsessed with Viking's. I went into the centre of my large city at 9pm on a Friday night with a full size axe, blunted blade but still a massive stick with a huge bit of metal on the end. I walked all over this town with this, not one police person stopped me or asked me what I was doing. Could a 17 year old black male do that? How many people would stop them?

I am assuming you are female. I am pretty sure ANY male would have been stopped for carrying about an axe, blunted on not. I'm not sure why you weren't tbh, female or not.

Is this racist? I use person of Colour a lot and had no idea this was racist? Not an argument. Hoping to be educated as I wouldn’t want to offend Personally I (a black woman) hate it. It's lumping everyone into "white" and "other" and for me I feel many white people like to use it as it is almost like saying "coloured". Many people put an emphasis on "colour" again though that's just me personally.

Liz Truss? I think you meant no white men.

I ask for second opinions from ALL doctors if I feel something has been missed/unexplained non. I have equal trust in all races to look after me, have my best interests at heart. I would never assume one doctor was superior to another due to race - absolutely not. My trust in a doctor is earned through professional conduct, lengthy experience and ability. End of.

Saying you don’t see colour is saying you don’t see any issue. I don’t discriminate against people because of colour, but I know that racism is very real and for people that experience it every day it is kind of diminishing their experience. We all have unconscious bias wether it is meant in a negative way or not.

I have told this before on here, I met a bloke through work who I became friends with. He is black. I knew he was married but hadn’t met his wife at the start. I assumed she was black, she isn’t, she is white. So that was my unconscious bias coming out. Part of my thinking was probably because of their age and they were married a long time ago when mixed race couples were less common, but also partly because of expectation that black marries black, white marries white. We are now all friends and their children who are young adults experience racism regularly. Not as much as their Dad has in his life but definitely a significant amount.

I think we all need to see colour and see what people go through, and not just colour, sexuality, disability etc. but not think that whatever it is that makes them more open to discrimination is what defines them.

OP, the people that responded to your ad were mostly people of colour?
Were the responses positive?
If you got few responses from ‘white people’ doesn’t that often mean that they didn’t have a problem with the ad? So no interaction, status quo etc. Maybe not relevant to them for whatever reason. It’s hard to answer with very little information to go on.

Yes, I see colour, race and language as important. As a teacher, it helps me tailor my skills to the children I teach, the families and communities they are from and I always try to learn more. And yes to white privilege and unconscious bias being issues I need to be aware of in myself.
But it’s a minefield, so I tend to listen a lot more than pronounce as everyone’s lived experience is different, and some facts and knowledge may be applicable to more than one individual or group, but often it isn’t. And the only way I can know that is to listen.
I’m a white female. I can no more understand what it’s like to be a POC than a man can understand what it’s like to be a woman.

I thought one of the PP was having a laugh when they mentioned Black Mumsnetters.. no, it actually exists.. :-0
Like in my large city, there are all sorts of Black womens' this & that.. I imagine the furore if there were White womens clubs! Why DO people separate themselves?
I don't know (on MN) whether I'm replying to posts by white women or black women, & DON'T BLOODY CARE - it makes absolutely no difference to me.. it's all overthinking.
My neighbours & I had a great BBQ last week - I'm in the middle house, black African (I assume) heritage on one side, Pakistani heritage on the other. We all had a great time! I just don't get why colour has to come into EVERYTHING. Maybe you'll tell me I'm naive, well, from where I'm sitting, it's a great place to be, tbh. I'm not looking for problems.

OP I work in luxury goods. I am white and married to a black man (his choice of discription). He is late 50s and as a child it was rare to see people of colour (my terminology) used in ads. Our children hate POC and use far more sucticinct words, black, Asian, mixed heritage. We do take note if a prestigious brand is using black people in the ads. I usually control advertising spend and the product selection in my work and believe me it is always a struggle to get my fellow directors to include non white people in the mix.
Things are better thirty years on but we still get discrimination leveled at us daily in our chi chi market town. We are trying to buy a house but it is surprising how many go under offer to someone else after we have viewed.

Are you for real? It is things like this which is why people have groups, clubs etc for support. The age old there’s no white peoples clubs bollocks. There’s womens at work groups precisely because historically women have been discriminated against, why is it any different for any group that is likely to face discrimination and needs support from others in the same/similar situation?

@mamabear715 the reason for black Mumsnet is that it is a safe space for black women to discuss things which they might get ignorant responses for on other threads. Do you agree there is a need for women only spaces?
Imagine if you were on MN talking about being discriminated against at work because you're a working mum, getting unwanted attention by a guy, the menopause, current issues in feminism etc and a man commented saying something like 'I don't know what you're moaning about, I don't find this an issue at all'. Well that's what happens to black women and POC all the time. Classic response to a concern about racism on MN is 'it's all in your head' you see it all the time!
I honestly can't think of one issue which would warrant a 'white mumsnet' section. There are no topics which would strike me as being uncomfortable or inappropriate for a black mum or south Asian mum to comment on. In actual fact, guidance from people of colour is really useful when raising a child of colour if you are white. A lot of my white friends are open that they don't know how they are going to react when their children are subject to racism.

MagentaRocks

Saying you don't see colour does not mean that you don't accept that prejudice exists.

It means that you talk to a person you haven't met before, listening to them and getting to know their personality. It means showing them the respect and kindness you'd like others to show you. You don't treat them differently because of their colour.

@Nonunsnonunsnone Thank you for your explanation. I dunno, I just find it really sad that everyone can't just accept that we're all the damn same apart from the wrapping. :-(
From the Jamaican bus conductor with the very smiley face when I was tiny, to my (Pakistani, I guess) best friend in infant school with the plait right down her back (I was so envious) Now with friends, neighbours, doctors, nurses, I just assume that we're all integrated.
I so hope we don't have the same posts in 10, 25, 50 years.. :-(

White privilege absolutely exists .
I am white but not british.
I have family members who are british but not white.
I have seen it with my own eyes, eg SIL being followed around a department store by security, nephew stopped from coming into our DC party in a leisure centre by staff and many, many more.
Treated differently when out as a family group.

Its horrible but please dont try to say that it doesn't exist.

It’s nice that black women can connect, especially if they don’t live in an ethnically diverse area. I’ve never seen an East Asian only space in the UK though. I don’t really know anyone who is my race.

well, from where I'm sitting, it's a great place to be, tbh. I'm not looking for problems.

A great encapsulation of white privilege, @mamabear715

For me the interesting issue is given that there is racial prejudice, what is the best way to behave to overcome that.

10-20 years ago, the assumption was that the best way to behave was to ‘ignore race’ and treat everyone equally. This is now seen as racist as it ignores racial disadvantages.

At my work, we had diversity training post BML where we were told to acknowledge race and to go and speak to our colleagues of colour about their heritage and the challenges they have faced because of it.

It meant that for the first time, I looked at my team and made an explicit characterisation of them by race. For example, my colleague Lisa is Indian heritage born and raised in the U.K and we had never spoken about race issues. But as a white person, I found it impossible to raise the topic without coming across as ‘othering’.

It left me feeling awkward where I didn’t before as we’d worked together for years and chatted about the same topics as my other work friends (issues with bosses etc).

So although happy to acknowledge that prejudices exist, what should we do about it

my mixed race dd said to her head teacher, who had said he didn’t see colour, that she wants others to see her colour.

@Pollydon
Am laughing as I remember being followed around a Store 21 shop, after overhearing the 13 yr old manager telling an assistant 'watch her'. I'm a blue eyed blonde.. well, a bit greyer now.. ;-)
The reason? Probably because I was carrying a huge empty shopping bag, having just dropped off STUFF FOR CHARITY!!
So, yes, if things like that happen constantly (and I REALLY hope they don't) I can see why you would be upset.

It’s not about looking for problems. It’s about understanding and acknowledgment of our experiences.

It’s a good thing to be able to meet / connect with others like you when you’re in a minority.

im from Liverpool and if I meet a fellow scouser outside of the city we are excited and connect and share something. It’s just a bigger version of that.
And you only have to look at expat communities in Spain or middle east to see it happens everywhere. No one questions those ime.

person of colour is absolutely not a racist term - it’s is used mostly in America (i’m British) but is something completely acceptable aswell as black, black African, Black Somali etc - the term “coloured” is offensive due to its links to segregation and why people are offended - possibly that’s where the confusion here has come from