For the way I described HIV to my daughter?

[maloofshoof]

I met with my daughters dad today (we had some childcare issues to sort out). My daughter is 9, and last night she asked me what HIV was. I asked her where she had heard about that but she wouldn't tell me, kept saying she was unsure but had heard about it.

I was on the spot, we were driving to an after school club and so I said something along the lines of that it was a virus that erupted in the 80s and that they thought it started from gay men having sex but it turned out that it was a virus that could be spread by blood etc and so women, needle users etc could get it too. I said that in the 80s if someone had it they would die but now there is medicine that allows people with it to live a relatively normal life (bearing in mind I am no expert and was put on the spot with this question). Perhaps I should have said I'll explain later and done a bit of research but I didn't.

When I told my ex today he was really 'appalled'. He said he can't believe I taught our daughter that HIV was spread between only gay men when that was only propaganda and how the media portrayed it. He said I really messed up an educational opportunity with homophobic undercurrents (not homophobic in the slightest, in fact I have been with women and two of my close friends are gay).

I was taken aback and tried to explain myself but he was really upset and left on quite unpleasant terms.

Did I totally fuck up?

HIV can be spread outside of anal sex

I hope your children have someone with an ounce of knowledge around such topics helping them. As you don't seem to have a scooby doo

That can pose a problem when other people around her could have autoimmune diseases - rheumatoid arthritis, psoriasis, T1 Diabetes, Celiac - they're autoimmune and children will use that phrase when other kids have a go at them for having a skin disease they think is catching, say they must be greedy pigs for eating cakes and sweets to get diabetes, or repeat adults saying 'but she can't have arthritis, that's what old people get'.

All those posters who are aghast at the Op talking about the history of Aids
You do realise that for a long time it was perceived as a shameful disease and it was portrayed in the media as such ?
It does a great dis service to all the early sufferers to pretend it didn't happen ,many of whom were gay men ,and it was those very men that brought it to media attention that paved the way for modern treatments ,many of those early sufferers died alone and frightened because nobody wanted to go near them
Thankfully with much better understanding and treatments it's become in the western world at least a treatable if not curable condition I was a teen in the 80,s it was frankfully terrifying at the time .

Starts as part of the national curriculum in year 5 btw.

And most decent parents will have had the chat well before this point

its your child. Worst thing you’ve done is ask for confirmation on this site. I don’t think what you said was homophobic but I can guarantee a lot of keyboard warriors on here will tell you you was.

Why is ex getting so emotional about it, that’s what I’m wondering.

Bloodyhell @maloofshoof I bet you regret posting at all now..
You were put on the spot, & answered as honestly & accurately as you could.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing, isn't it? All the posters who've told you what a crap job you did have had time to think before they posted.. am angry on your behalf. :-(

I think most people are aghast because this was in conversation with a 9 year old, who thinks sex is kissing.

Not in the UK though.

National Aids Trust www.nat.org.uk/about-hiv/hiv-statistics

The proportion of people accessing HIV care in 2019 who acquired HIV transmission through heterosexual sex (45,445 - 46.1%) is very similar to the proportion of people who acquired HIV through sex between men (45,771 - 46.4%).

Terrence Higgins Trust www.tht.org.uk/news/heterosexual-hiv-diagnoses-overtake-those-gay-men-first-time-decade#:~:text=For%20the%20first%20time%20in,in%20gay%20and%20bisexual%20men.

For the first time in a decade, the number of new HIV diagnoses among heterosexuals is higher than for gay and bisexual men, according to new figures for England from the UK Health Security Agency.
Half of all new HIV diagnoses were in heterosexuals (49%) in England in 2020, compared to 45% in gay and bisexual men.

The news highlights the changing shape of the domestic HIV epidemic despite a drop in testing caused by the COVID-19 pandemic. HIV testing by sexual health services among heterosexuals during 2020 fell by a third (33%), compared to a 7% decrease among gay and bisexual men. This makes the number of diagnoses among heterosexuals passing gay and bisexual men even more significant.

I can’t stand people who insist that kids should only be exposed to the mists basic information around difficult subjects.

HIV is now a manageable chronic health condition. But it was also a massive massive catastrophe in our society, particularly in the gay community. Describing HIV as just a virus without even alluding to its historical significance would be patronising.

I agree with others that you could have done that a bit better - by explaining it in the context of homophobia and the massive fear and ignorance that existed.

But you at least introduced her to the idea that HIV has a historical context. That leaves open the door for further conversations about its history, it’s impact and how it exists today. That is far better than just saying ‘it’s a virus’. Some people have very infantilising views of their kids.

@nutellachurro yes but at 9 years of age, come on. if they were a couple of years older maybe early secondary school age maybe. my 9 year old is still very very innocent maybe more so than many as he also looks much younger and is very small for his age.
I don't think its necessary to go into so much detail people seem to forget kids are kids these days and treat them like mini adults.

You said this in an appalling, insensitive way and your H was right.

Oh god, what a nightmare! I agree 'a disease spread through the blood' might have been a better way to give a short answer, but I think we'd all be lying if we said we'd never given a less than amazing response to a surprise question like that!

Your ex is being petty @maloofshoof- if he mentions it again, I'd tell him you are not entering into a dialogue with him about it, you were simply letting him know in case his daughter asks him. If she brings it up, I would have something else ready to tell her. Say that you think you might have confused her a little with your previous answer, and to make it simple and easy HIV is <however you choose to explain it>

You did all you could on the spot. I would do a redo though to make sure she gets the info she needs at her age level. What you said was not homophobic. The 80 were appalling time. I just glossed over the difference between aids and HIV with my son: it's his curriculum and I am realising I did not talk to him about the reality of it. What people and communities went through. I'll have to do a retake. All the best OP.

I don't think it is about rewriting history at all. Just feeding in more information as required. Of course it is part of the story that gay men were appallingly treated and scapegoated, of course it should not be forgotten. However this is a child who thinks kissing is sex. She is missing a lot of information that should be filled in before getting into STI's. She can start with it being a disease, then fill in the rest of the picture as her daughter can understand it.

What on earth is wrong with a 9 year old learning about the social history behind an illness?

Its a bit like saying that a 9yo who asks about antisemitism shouldn’t be told about the holocaust.

It's only a fuck up if that is "here endeth the lesson" continuing to teach your child about homophobia, the unreliability of correlation of data the untrustworthiness of government / social crusade campaigns etc.

If your child only learns from that, she could get confused.

If you teach her more about STDs over time then an understanding will emerge
Sorry to all those horrified, learning takes more than one utterance. That's why people revise for exams!

There wasn't really a need to mention gay sex and needle users, but it's not a crime against humanity. I'm sure most parents have given clumsy explanations to their kids about loads of sensitive topics with no malice intended, I wouldn't beat yourself up. As she has asked about HIV, and you mentioned sex, it's probably time to make sure she understands that sex is not kissing. It's probably about time even if she hadn't asked tbh. Many children have started puberty by 9, they should at least have a basic grasp of what's going on by then.

I think if posters were very young or not around in the 80,s it might be difficult to comprehend the impact HIV /AIDS had on society
It was a death sentence for most people and there was so much ignorance ,some people thought they could catch it from sharing cutlery, tooth brushes etc but ww didn't have 24 hours news then .
And it was incredibly stigmatised

I would too, but this girl doesn't know what sex is. I think that should come first.

I agree that you probably said too much. I would maybe just say it's a disease but people (nearly always adults) can only catch it in very specific ways so it's not something for her to be scared of. And it used to be kill lots of people at first because there was no treatment or cure but now people can be treated and it's not as dangerous as it was (a bit like Covid which she is familiar with).

If half of new diagnoses are gay and half are heterosexual that still indicates it’s much more prevalent in the gay community as around 1 in 10 people are gay, not half.

it’s a biological reality that it is more easily spread via anal sex and it’s not homophobic to say it is a disease that has affected gay men more.

or that if you are a gay man you ought to be particularly careful about it.

same way breast cancer is more of a womens disease. It’s not sexist to say that, women are statistically more at risk.

the homophobic part is assuming all gay men have it, that it is disgusting or means people should be treated differently if they have it. All vile views of course.

All of you telling OP how badly she's handled this had better get your own ducks in a row for unexpected difficult questions when you're driving children about.

Fwiw,@maloofshoof , I'd like to know what your ex wd have said in the same circs.

And he shd have given you a hug and said 'That was a tough one! We'll have to work out answers for other things she might ask,' and let it go. You did the best you could in the circumstances in which you found yourself; no one can ask for more.

In the context understanding sex doesn’t particularly matter since even if she thinks sex is kissing, OP would still be correct to say that people thought it was passed through gay sex, since people did think it could be caught by kissing.

It would probably be better if a 9yo had an understanding of sex but not essential to understand the social history of HIV. And we don’t get to choose what order our kids get interested in certain topics.

Back to the initial,question, I think there is nothing wrong with what OP has said.
in fact it seems bizarre and divorced from real life not to acknowledge the sexual politics around it, even to a 9 yo.
AIDS was a social and cultural fiasco as well as a disease,
it would be like mentioning covid without talking about how the world had to shut down and schools close etc. it’s a vital part of explaining what happened.