Page 10 | For the way I described HIV to my daughter?

pigsDOfly · 08/09/2022 18:44

FloorWipes · 07/09/2022 19:56

I genuinely don’t think you said anything wrong whatsoever. I think some people are extremely overprotective of children. Your explanation covered a lot of bases so I would say it was actually pretty good. Kids want and deserve the truth.

The child has been left to believe that sex between men and women is no more than kissing.

When starting from such a extreme level of ignorance for a 9 year old, going into such deep detail about sex between men and needle users is way over the top.

It sounds like the child has had no sex education at all that's why many of us are saying the OP should not have gone into so much detail.

The OP has been overprotective and not educated her child in human reproduction. To sudden load the child with details of sex between men and needle users is way too much information for the child to cope with.

JackandSam · 08/09/2022 19:26

Yeah I think you fucked up. If you were going to mention the 80s aids pandemic (which you did) then it needed a much, much bigger discussion.

milkyaqua · 08/09/2022 23:01

limitedperiodonly · 08/09/2022 15:12

@milkyaqua You might want to address that to @BadNomad . Or maybe not. It's up to you but I thought the accusation of perpetuating homophobia was a bit of an over reaction.

Yes I did, I quoted her reply to you, if you click on "show quote history".

milkyaqua · 08/09/2022 23:08

BadNomad · 08/09/2022 15:24

She wasn't asked for the history. She was asked what it was. I imagine most people would be more straight and factual about it being a virus and how it works. But clearly the OP associates it with gay men in the 80s, which is understandable if she is from that generation, but her daughter definitely isn't, but now she associates it with that too. Even though she never asked.

Along with thinking gay sex is men kissing.

Show quote history

Of course she wasn't asked for the history, but she told her daughter the history when put on the spot.

You keep shifting the goalposts - my response was about your assertion it was homophobic to mention the facts. It was certainly TMI. But the facts remain, although (like Monkey pox now in the wider world) HIV is not a 'gay disease' as some morons assert, the outbreak in the west was between men having sex with men, and in most western countries now, most new infections of HIV are in men who have sex with men. That is not homophobic to state.

BadNomad · 08/09/2022 23:20

milkyaqua · 08/09/2022 23:08

Of course she wasn't asked for the history, but she told her daughter the history when put on the spot.

You keep shifting the goalposts - my response was about your assertion it was homophobic to mention the facts. It was certainly TMI. But the facts remain, although (like Monkey pox now in the wider world) HIV is not a 'gay disease' as some morons assert, the outbreak in the west was between men having sex with men, and in most western countries now, most new infections of HIV are in men who have sex with men. That is not homophobic to state.

Show quote history

Eh? I didn't say it was homophobic to mention facts. I was saying how HIV was viewed in the 80s was homophobic. Which it was. And there is no need to make an association between the two in 2022.

in most western countries now, most new infections of HIV are in men who have sex with men. That is not homophobic to state.

I disagree. It's in people who have unprotected sex. Being gay has nothing to do with how viruses are spread. It is the lack of condoms that is the issue. A woman having unprotected sex with a man is just as likely to catch it as a man having unprotected sex with a man.

milkyaqua · 08/09/2022 23:49

I disagree. It's in people who have unprotected sex. Being gay has nothing to do with how viruses are spread. It is the lack of condoms that is the issue. A woman having unprotected sex with a man is just as likely to catch it as a man having unprotected sex with a man.

This is factually incorrect for a number of reasons I won't go into, but I am sure you could find out for yourself.

Here is the current view from Australia:

www.positivelife.org.au/hiv-info/hiv-statistics/

From the USA:

www.cdc.gov/hiv/group/gender/women/incidence.html

From the UK:

www.nat.org.uk/about-hiv/hiv-statistics

BadNomad · 09/09/2022 00:06

milkyaqua · 08/09/2022 23:49

I disagree. It's in people who have unprotected sex. Being gay has nothing to do with how viruses are spread. It is the lack of condoms that is the issue. A woman having unprotected sex with a man is just as likely to catch it as a man having unprotected sex with a man.

This is factually incorrect for a number of reasons I won't go into, but I am sure you could find out for yourself.

Here is the current view from Australia:

www.positivelife.org.au/hiv-info/hiv-statistics/

From the USA:

www.cdc.gov/hiv/group/gender/women/incidence.html

From the UK:

www.nat.org.uk/about-hiv/hiv-statistics

I don't think you understand the difference between correlation and causation.

Being a homosexual man does not mean you catch HIV easier than heterosexual men or women. However, gay/bi men are more likely to engage in unprotected sex. Having unprotected sex increases your chances of getting an STI.
So, again, STIs are spread by having unprotected sex. Not by being gay.

I don't know why you are hell-bent on blaming it on homosexuality.

MrsAppleHead · 09/09/2022 00:11

I don't think what you said was homophobic. I do think it's an awful lot of information for a 9 year old and opens up why are they asking etc.

milkyaqua · 09/09/2022 00:22

BadNomad · 09/09/2022 00:06

I don't think you understand the difference between correlation and causation.

Being a homosexual man does not mean you catch HIV easier than heterosexual men or women. However, gay/bi men are more likely to engage in unprotected sex. Having unprotected sex increases your chances of getting an STI.
So, again, STIs are spread by having unprotected sex. Not by being gay.

I don't know why you are hell-bent on blaming it on homosexuality.

Show quote history

Rich! Now I'm homophobic! You need to read up on transmission routes. I am not 'hell-bent on blaming it on homosexuality', or on IV drug users for that matter, just reporting from the frontlines - where the vast majority still of new infections are in men who have sex with men.

It is spread by many routes, not all involving sex or unprotected sex. However, the risk from anal sex is particularly high. Hence the prevalence in the population of men who have sex with men.

Here is wiki on the topic, as you seem to ignore links:

Globally, the most common mode of HIV transmission is via sexual contacts between people of the opposite sex;[13] however, the pattern of transmission varies among countries. As of 2017, most HIV transmission in the United States occurred among men who had sex with men (82% of new HIV diagnoses among males aged 13 and older and 70% of total new diagnoses).[57][58] In the US, gay and bisexual men aged 13 to 24 accounted for an estimated 92% of new HIV diagnoses among all men in their age group and 27% of new diagnoses among all gay and bisexual men.[59]

BadNomad · 09/09/2022 00:58

You really don't understand how to interpret statistics.

You are taking the statistics that say X-number of men who have sex with men contracted HIV compared to Y-number of heterosexual men and women and concluding men who have sex with men is what's spreading HIV. But. that. is. wrong.

In the UK, 41% of newly diagnosed cases are in men who have sex with men. So you're saying men who have sex with men are what's spreading HIV. Right?

In the UK, 55% of HIV infections are in black african people. So does that mean black people are what's spreading HIV?

In the UK, 47% of newly diagnosed HIV cases are in white people. So does that mean white people are spreading HIV (even though black people got the blame a moment ago..)?

In the UK, 91% of newly diagnosed cases are in England. So does that mean being English or living in England spreads HIV?

In the UK, 72% of newly diagnosed cases are men. So that means it is men who are spreading HIV?

What do all those things have in common? I'll give you a clue, it's not gay sex.

BadNomad · 09/09/2022 01:00

Remember back in the 90s when a research paper published a link between the MMR vaccine and autism? That was because people looked at the statistic and saw a high percentage of children diagnosed with autism had received the MMR vaccine, and therefore concluded that the MMR vaccine causes autism. That was false. That was a shit interpretation of statistics. There is no link. But that didn't stop people panicking and refusing to vaccinate their children.

Do you understand? You can use statistics to "prove" anything. It doesn't make it true.

milkyaqua · 09/09/2022 01:02

Oh, God bless.

Mumspair1 · 09/09/2022 06:58

maloofshoof · 07/09/2022 18:40

Just to add when I said it can be spread through sex she said, 'well you must have it since you've had sex with loads of folk' 😬 she thinks sex is kissing.

This alone tells you that your dd is far too young for your version of explanation. Why on earth would you say something like that. I don't blame your ex. Well you can be sure that your dd walked away with some really misinformed idea. Wtf were you thinking.

georgarina · 09/09/2022 07:54

BadNomad · 09/09/2022 00:06

I don't think you understand the difference between correlation and causation.

Being a homosexual man does not mean you catch HIV easier than heterosexual men or women. However, gay/bi men are more likely to engage in unprotected sex. Having unprotected sex increases your chances of getting an STI.
So, again, STIs are spread by having unprotected sex. Not by being gay.

I don't know why you are hell-bent on blaming it on homosexuality.

Show quote history

Anal sex significantly increases the risk of contracting HIV as compared to vaginal sex. It's not just a case of 'unprotected sex'. I don't know why you're dismissing facts and spreading misinformation that will harm the community you're saying you support.

Also, no one said it's an issue with homosexuality. Gay women are not at higher risk.

Alondra · 09/09/2022 08:15

<<<Being a homosexual man does not mean you catch HIV easier than heterosexual men or women. However, gay/bi men are more likely to engage in unprotected sex. Having unprotected sex increases your chances of getting an STI.>>>>

Being a homosexual man does not make it easier to catch HIV, as long as there is no anal intercourse. If there is anal intercourse, men are 18 times more likely to get the virus than by vaginal sex. This is a scientific fact.

Please research why catching HIV through anal sex is so much easier than through vaginal sex. There is plenty of medical/scientific published research on the net.

Valeriekat · 10/09/2022 22:07

It was gay men and those that loved them who raised funds and campaigned for more research and awareness around AIDS in the 80s.

AlrightAlrightAlrightMatthewMcConaughey · 10/09/2022 22:22

maloofshoof · 07/09/2022 18:23

I met with my daughters dad today (we had some childcare issues to sort out). My daughter is 9, and last night she asked me what HIV was. I asked her where she had heard about that but she wouldn't tell me, kept saying she was unsure but had heard about it.

I was on the spot, we were driving to an after school club and so I said something along the lines of that it was a virus that erupted in the 80s and that they thought it started from gay men having sex but it turned out that it was a virus that could be spread by blood etc and so women, needle users etc could get it too. I said that in the 80s if someone had it they would die but now there is medicine that allows people with it to live a relatively normal life (bearing in mind I am no expert and was put on the spot with this question). Perhaps I should have said I'll explain later and done a bit of research but I didn't.

When I told my ex today he was really 'appalled'. He said he can't believe I taught our daughter that HIV was spread between only gay men when that was only propaganda and how the media portrayed it. He said I really messed up an educational opportunity with homophobic undercurrents (not homophobic in the slightest, in fact I have been with women and two of my close friends are gay).

I was taken aback and tried to explain myself but he was really upset and left on quite unpleasant terms.

Did I totally fuck up?

Hold on hold on

This is actually correct based on what was happening at the time quote 'virus that erupted in the 80s and that they thought it started from gay men having sex but it turned out that it was a virus that could be spread by blood etc and so women, needle users etc could get it too.''

They DID think that it was from Gay men/drug use. The media did fuel all that, yes, but there was very little scientific info given to the public in the early days - even patients were given second class care in hospitals. So medical professionals didn't know much either. Only later found that this was entirely wrong and created a lot of homophobia and fear.

and yet your EX has TWISTED this in to ''HIV was spread between only gay men (Full stop)'' It was not just how the media portrayed it, for a long time scientists knew very little and medical staff were scared

Considering you were caught on the hop with this question, I don't think you did as shit as your EX wants you to believe.

My only concern is the age of your daughter - Personally I wouldn't be discussing things like this in great detail with a nine year old.

AlrightAlrightAlrightMatthewMcConaughey · 10/09/2022 22:22

There was a lot of shit said about HIV in the early days. A lot of people died in pain and ostracised from society, it was awful

dianthus101 · 10/09/2022 22:48

AlrightAlrightAlrightMatthewMcConaughey · 10/09/2022 22:22

Hold on hold on

This is actually correct based on what was happening at the time quote 'virus that erupted in the 80s and that they thought it started from gay men having sex but it turned out that it was a virus that could be spread by blood etc and so women, needle users etc could get it too.''

They DID think that it was from Gay men/drug use. The media did fuel all that, yes, but there was very little scientific info given to the public in the early days - even patients were given second class care in hospitals. So medical professionals didn't know much either. Only later found that this was entirely wrong and created a lot of homophobia and fear.

and yet your EX has TWISTED this in to ''HIV was spread between only gay men (Full stop)'' It was not just how the media portrayed it, for a long time scientists knew very little and medical staff were scared

Considering you were caught on the hop with this question, I don't think you did as shit as your EX wants you to believe.

My only concern is the age of your daughter - Personally I wouldn't be discussing things like this in great detail with a nine year old.

Show quote history

Who is "they". I was a teenager in the 80s and I certainly didn't think you could only get if you were gay or a drug user. That wasn't the public health message at all. We were told that anybody could get it and that you must use condoms to reduce the risk.

Calphurnia88 · 11/09/2022 07:30

AlrightAlrightAlrightMatthewMcConaughey · 10/09/2022 22:22

Hold on hold on

This is actually correct based on what was happening at the time quote 'virus that erupted in the 80s and that they thought it started from gay men having sex but it turned out that it was a virus that could be spread by blood etc and so women, needle users etc could get it too.''

They DID think that it was from Gay men/drug use. The media did fuel all that, yes, but there was very little scientific info given to the public in the early days - even patients were given second class care in hospitals. So medical professionals didn't know much either. Only later found that this was entirely wrong and created a lot of homophobia and fear.

and yet your EX has TWISTED this in to ''HIV was spread between only gay men (Full stop)'' It was not just how the media portrayed it, for a long time scientists knew very little and medical staff were scared

Considering you were caught on the hop with this question, I don't think you did as shit as your EX wants you to believe.

My only concern is the age of your daughter - Personally I wouldn't be discussing things like this in great detail with a nine year old.

Show quote history

I think your last paragraph says it all.

This wasn't an appropriate answer for a 9 year old - particularly one who thinks that sex is kissing - as clearly her takeout (which she has then relaid to her father) is that HIV is spread by gay men.

Tbf to OP she has been given a lot of constructive feedback, and several messages back has said she will do a redo.