Page 8 | To take DD to A&E?

Flyinghighinthestars · 2022-09-07T17:07:56+00:00

Just to show her nothing is wrong? DD is 16 and has autism and adhd. She came back from college today and said one of her ‘friends’ told her to use a vape that they saw on the pavement as they we’re walking home, DD picked it up and used it and then told me when she got home. Apparently it had no vape left in it so didn’t work properly but DD tried it around 5-6 times as her friends we’re telling her to. Anyway now she’s home she’s overthinking (she does this because of her autism) and really worrying saying ‘what if it had dirt or soil on/in it from being on the floor and I accidentally breathed it in’ ‘what it vaping it (the battery was still working apparently) with nothing in has done me harm’ and so on. She’s saying her “voice sounds different” (it sounds the same to me) and saying her throat feels like it’s burning and her chest feels “weird” (DD can’t explain why it feels weird) and “hurts a little”. Me and DH have reassured her nothing is wrong but she’s overthinking still and having a full on autistic meltdown right now. Should I just take her to A&E and get her checked out just to show her she is fine? DD has never used a vape before this incident

Lougle · 07/09/2022 20:05

Could you take a different approach? It's possible that she inhaled some steam rather than vape liquid and that it was hot. Could you take the approach that yes, possibly her chest does hurt and that it wasn't a great thing to do, but if she is able to rest for a while, it will get better.

I wonder if the reassurance that she is 'ok' when she doesn't feel 'ok' is making her panic that she isn't being believed. It may also be a little bit of anxiety that she did something 'naughty' - could you reassure her that you're not cross with her for trying the vape.

SunnyD44 · 07/09/2022 20:05

might ask one of my friends if they can come round and “check” her

If you can, I think this will be a great idea.

She needs to be told she’s fine by someone calm and then move on.
Because she is fine.

If ever this happens when she’s genuinely poorly then you need to be able to snap her out of this quickly so you can distinguish between actual illness or autism/anxiety which can present as illness.

My DD would physically vomit when she used to get like this and get boiling hot from panicking, so you would then worry is she actually poorly or not.

She is fine OP.
You know she’s fine.
Now you just have to convince her.

Becute · 07/09/2022 20:05

I hope your ok, meltdowns are so hard and there is nothing you can do which is frustrating. Maybe say that you will book her in to see a Dr in the morning if she is still feeling bad? And give her a nice cup of tea and tell her it may help. Hope she and you are ok

SeaToSki · 07/09/2022 20:06

I dont have experience of autism, but have dealt with an anxiety meltdown or two. 5is is what I would try

DD. Im just going to ring the doctor about what you should do, try and leave her earshot and line of sight for a couple of mins

Come back and say, right the Doctor says you need to stop crying as that will make things worse. The doctor also said you should get into the bath and have a hot bath with the room all steamy as the steam will clean out any dirt when you breath it in. You should also have a cup of hot tea with lemon and sugar as the hot drink will clean your mouth and then have a spoonful of honey as that will calm down any irritation.

Then if you think she heard you, go and run a bath and try and find some lavender stuff to put in it (very calming) and get her moving towards it. If she wont bath, substitute a long hot steamy shower. Once she is in the bath then do the tea and honey. Then tell her the doctor wants her to get to bed as sleep is very healing after being very worried.

The trick (with anxiety) is just one tiny step in the right direction, you then build on that and scaffold them to a full resolution. I hope there is something in this that might work. Good luck

NeedAHoliday2021 · 07/09/2022 20:06

I’d get her to clean her teeth so she doesn’t need to worry about the dirt and then distract. Stay calm and patient (outwardly). Good luck op.

silverbubbles · 07/09/2022 20:07

Get her to call that NHS helpline and talk to the person on the end of the line. That will be enough to reassure her.

SunnyD44 · 07/09/2022 20:07

As the PP said if her throat hurts from inhaling it don’t dismiss her feelings.

Say yes that’s because you breathed it in but it won’t harm you and you’re absolutely fine.
That feeling is normal and will go soon.

Her throat/chest is going to be hurting more as she’s panicking so she is going to feel like it’s from the vape.

LIZS · 07/09/2022 20:10

Lougle · 07/09/2022 20:05

Could you take a different approach? It's possible that she inhaled some steam rather than vape liquid and that it was hot. Could you take the approach that yes, possibly her chest does hurt and that it wasn't a great thing to do, but if she is able to rest for a while, it will get better.

I wonder if the reassurance that she is 'ok' when she doesn't feel 'ok' is making her panic that she isn't being believed. It may also be a little bit of anxiety that she did something 'naughty' - could you reassure her that you're not cross with her for trying the vape.

Agree with this. Her knowing that what she did was "wrong" is probably feeding the physical symptoms and anxiety. If she knows you are not cross she may start to forgive herself the mistake.

whateveryouwantmetosay · 07/09/2022 20:10

I'm so sorry this is happening OP. I work with individuals with ASD and have done for many years. As you've already indicated, DD is in the middle of a meltdown. I'm linking an article with tips but also will type them here for easy reference:

Do not try and reason with her right now. Telling her the vape hasn't done anything won't help as she cannot reason when escalated. If anything, just repeat "you're safe" (stop if that escalates things further).

Avoid demands. Don't tell her to stop or anything similar. Your DH didn't help here with this one.

Don't yell over her. Again your DH didn't help which is likely why she's started again. Anything that seems threatening to her in this moment is going to make things worse.

Validate her feelings but not her actions. You said she's "hitting out" which I assume means she's striking you. Move away and say things like "I know you're scared", "it makes sense that you're scared. I'm here and I understand".

Personal space. If she's hitting, move to another area where she cannot get you without having to get up herself (this also gives uou time to move).

Body language and tone. This is by far the hardest for me when a client is melting down. Try and remain calm. Relax your body. Do some progressive muscle relaxation and deep breathing yourself (don't prompt her--that would be a demand).

Hope this helps. Here is the article: hes-extraordinary.com/de-escalation-techniques

hittheroadjackk · 07/09/2022 20:11

Wingingit2047 · 07/09/2022 18:23

When you take a draw of a vape that has no liquid, the coil burns dry and it isn't a nice sensation but it won't have done her any harm. As pp have said, A&E isn't for people who are well and need reassurance. I really needed them on Sunday and it was a 10 hour wait.

Absolutely this.

And if it was a disposable vape (more than likely if it's been chucked in a pavement) you don't get that sensation with those. You just breathe it in and nothing happens. Just like breathing air. Nothing will come out of it.

A&E is absolutely not the place to take her. The stretched doctors won't appreciate you both being there just to reassure her.

I don't know what the answer is, but your daughter hasn't had an accident and she isn't in an emergency situation.

CookieCoo · 07/09/2022 20:15

Please don’t!! I had to take a child to A&E with an actual emergency a few weeks ago. We were seen immediately thankfully.

But so many people were wasting time there!! It’s the new “bed blocking”. Some had entire families with them 😠 Sore knees, tiny cuts etc. I was furious with the fucking idiots who didn’t belong there!!

Original poster

Flyinghighinthestars · 07/09/2022 20:15

Lougle · 07/09/2022 20:05

Could you take a different approach? It's possible that she inhaled some steam rather than vape liquid and that it was hot. Could you take the approach that yes, possibly her chest does hurt and that it wasn't a great thing to do, but if she is able to rest for a while, it will get better.

I wonder if the reassurance that she is 'ok' when she doesn't feel 'ok' is making her panic that she isn't being believed. It may also be a little bit of anxiety that she did something 'naughty' - could you reassure her that you're not cross with her for trying the vape.

I did reassure her I wasn’t angry at her for using the vape, I did this before she started having a meltdown when she first told us about it

OP posts:

dawngreen · 07/09/2022 20:15

You will be sat there for 5 hours plus in A&E. Say this - Could you take a different approach? It's possible that she inhaled some steam rather than vape liquid and that it was hot. Could you take the approach that yes, possibly her chest does hurt and that it wasn't a great thing to do, but if she is able to rest for a while, it will get better.

Original poster

Flyinghighinthestars · 07/09/2022 20:16

hittheroadjackk · 07/09/2022 20:11

Absolutely this.

And if it was a disposable vape (more than likely if it's been chucked in a pavement) you don't get that sensation with those. You just breathe it in and nothing happens. Just like breathing air. Nothing will come out of it.

A&E is absolutely not the place to take her. The stretched doctors won't appreciate you both being there just to reassure her.

I don't know what the answer is, but your daughter hasn't had an accident and she isn't in an emergency situation.

Show quote history

She said the battery was still working though

OP posts:

User4648367373774 · 07/09/2022 20:16

Op, I can sympathise with your Dd - and you! I am autistic (although I was not diagnosed at your DD's age) and I had similar thought patterns to what you explain your Dd has said. I would fret about things and worry over it. For example, when I was say year in year 8 an older child was being a prick running round the playground with a condom blowing it up and swiping kids heads or backs with it. Unfortunately he rubbed it on my head and my god it was awful, I held it in til I got home but I lost the plot, worried about it, what if it was used etc. my mum tried to reassure me but I worried about it for weeks!! as an adult I still fret but not over the same things I did as a kid or teen.

I also have two with asd and they fret like anything.

anyway, rather than a&e maybe speak to 111 and they might get a doctor to ring back and reassure her?

I really hope she calms down soon 💗

latetothefisting · 07/09/2022 20:16

Completely disagree with all the advice saying to ring the NHS helpline because the moment you mention chest symptoms they will probably recommend a&e "just to be safe" because they don't want to be sued!

OP you keep saying you know now she's not likely to be harmed but then coming back and asking more and more minor questions about if the vape could possible have hurt her due to x, y, z which probably isn't helping if she's taking that as you humouring her delusions

literally there is no possible way, battery in battery out, light on light off, tank full tank empty, picked up off the ground with possible soil contamination.....
that someone taking a few puffs of a vape will harm them. Honestly. Whatever she says just keep reiterating that. They are designed to be safe and pleasant to use, why would the makers design them to be dangerous once they'd been emptied???

A few puffs on an empty vape is as disgusting but much less dangerous than a few drags from the end of a fag. Honestly the biggest danger is putting something in her mouth there's a highish chance a dog has pissed on (obviously don't mention that to her!). If her chest is hurting its probably because she's been screaming and crying for hours!

I'm sorry dh has added to your stress and you honestly sound like you are coping amazingly with it by the way, must be horrible for you to see her so upset and probably know you want to leave yourself to get away from it but staying there for her.

Original poster

Flyinghighinthestars · 07/09/2022 20:17

whateveryouwantmetosay · 07/09/2022 20:10

I'm so sorry this is happening OP. I work with individuals with ASD and have done for many years. As you've already indicated, DD is in the middle of a meltdown. I'm linking an article with tips but also will type them here for easy reference:

Do not try and reason with her right now. Telling her the vape hasn't done anything won't help as she cannot reason when escalated. If anything, just repeat "you're safe" (stop if that escalates things further).

Avoid demands. Don't tell her to stop or anything similar. Your DH didn't help here with this one.

Don't yell over her. Again your DH didn't help which is likely why she's started again. Anything that seems threatening to her in this moment is going to make things worse.

Validate her feelings but not her actions. You said she's "hitting out" which I assume means she's striking you. Move away and say things like "I know you're scared", "it makes sense that you're scared. I'm here and I understand".

Personal space. If she's hitting, move to another area where she cannot get you without having to get up herself (this also gives uou time to move).

Body language and tone. This is by far the hardest for me when a client is melting down. Try and remain calm. Relax your body. Do some progressive muscle relaxation and deep breathing yourself (don't prompt her--that would be a demand).

Hope this helps. Here is the article: hes-extraordinary.com/de-escalation-techniques

I am trying all these but will keep trying and will look at that article xx

OP posts:

hittheroadjackk · 07/09/2022 20:20

@Flyinghighinthestars

Yes the battery will still work.
If it's a disposable one all that will happen is a light will flash when it's flat. You can't breathe in battery fumes from a vape.

If it's not a disposable one, again, you can't breathe in battery. She will just have a burnt taste from the cotton in the coil.

But the chances of a non disposable vape being in the floor are slim as they're expensive and refillable.

Both are harmless and she won't breath in battery fumes. If the battery was still working in it she just breathed in air with the battery flashing that it's empty / flat.

Original poster

Flyinghighinthestars · 07/09/2022 20:21

latetothefisting · 07/09/2022 20:16

Completely disagree with all the advice saying to ring the NHS helpline because the moment you mention chest symptoms they will probably recommend a&e "just to be safe" because they don't want to be sued!

OP you keep saying you know now she's not likely to be harmed but then coming back and asking more and more minor questions about if the vape could possible have hurt her due to x, y, z which probably isn't helping if she's taking that as you humouring her delusions

literally there is no possible way, battery in battery out, light on light off, tank full tank empty, picked up off the ground with possible soil contamination.....
that someone taking a few puffs of a vape will harm them. Honestly. Whatever she says just keep reiterating that. They are designed to be safe and pleasant to use, why would the makers design them to be dangerous once they'd been emptied???

A few puffs on an empty vape is as disgusting but much less dangerous than a few drags from the end of a fag. Honestly the biggest danger is putting something in her mouth there's a highish chance a dog has pissed on (obviously don't mention that to her!). If her chest is hurting its probably because she's been screaming and crying for hours!

I'm sorry dh has added to your stress and you honestly sound like you are coping amazingly with it by the way, must be horrible for you to see her so upset and probably know you want to leave yourself to get away from it but staying there for her.

Thank you for the last paragraph, I appreciate that xx

OP posts:

AMindNeedsBooks · 07/09/2022 20:21

Anxiety symptoms. My autistic child is the same. Reassure her you will phone the doctor in the morning but not to worry because no one is seriously harmed from one try at a vape (over a period of time possibly but not one incident).

I know how hard it is. Just confidently tell her she's absolutely fine but you'll ask the GP in the morning solely to put her mind at rest if she wants.

Musicalmaestro · 07/09/2022 20:22

Do you have any ice cream?
When she is a bit calmer I wonder if offering her some to soothe her sore throat may be helpful? ( If she likes it)

Original poster

Flyinghighinthestars · 07/09/2022 20:22

I honestly don’t know how she’s managing to still be having a meltdown after all these hours, I would be exhausted by now if I was her, infact I am exhausted and I’m not the one having a meltdown!

OP posts:

Original poster

Flyinghighinthestars · 07/09/2022 20:23

Musicalmaestro · 07/09/2022 20:22

Do you have any ice cream?
When she is a bit calmer I wonder if offering her some to soothe her sore throat may be helpful? ( If she likes it)

Yes I will definitely try this, we have a few ice lollies and some ice cream in our freezer

OP posts:

Cupofteaonesugar · 07/09/2022 20:27

I'm reading this as you're wondering whether to take her to a and e because she's having a mental health/autism struggle episode as opposed to just needing reassurance.
If you think m mentally she's in a Dangerous place due to all of this the. I would take her. If not then I would contact the go tomorrow.
You could perhaps ring 111 and get some advice and see if anyone can help her or speak to her?

Hope you're all ok

bringbackveronicamars · 07/09/2022 20:28

Not too long ago, I took one of mine in for suspected appendicitis, which it turned out to be. We were there for 12 hours before the diagnosis finally confirmed it at about 2am....

A&E is not for 'reassurances', no matter how big the meltdown. Sorry. I hope she calms down soon for you. x