To ask why people vote Tory?

[Tierne]

It has to be said that life in the UK on low or middle income is much harder than it seemingly is in other western countries of similar wealth. I dont think the Tory party is making this country a nice place to live in at all. But they keep getting voted in.

So if you vote Tory:
Why do you vote for them?
Would you ever change your vote and for what reason?
Do you feel uncomfortable at how Tory policies batter the most vulnerable in our society? For example making it impossible for people to get on the housing ladder, high rents and low tenant protections, no energy bill caps, etc?

NB: I dont want this to turn into a Tory bashing thread. I'd just like to hear how Tory supporters feel about their party.

If that was true how do you explain the large increases in minimum wage and tax-free allowance, and the triple-lock on pensions?

You seem to have literally zero understanding of the policies the government has implemented, the wealth of its MPs, or their educational background.

How can you be so profoundly ignorant of all the relevant facts yet so certain that you understand what they think?

But she wasn’t underprivileged. I’ll type it more slowly this time; she’s from a wealthier family than I am.

@Arkestra thank you so much. As I said earlier, I don’t think everyone who votes Tory is a horrible person, I do understand some of the reason they vote the way they do, but I do find a lot fail to consider that people have different circumstances and different abilities and things aren’t as clear cut as made out.

Some of their policies are abhorrent. I’m sorry if that offends anybody and I don’t care if people laugh and tell me get off the moral high ground.

I can’t understand how people can see what has gone in the last 12 years and vote for them again in good conscience. They are utterly corrupt, and it doesn’t even just affect the poorest either. Huge swathes of the country are feeling the consequences.

@FarFromHome2

You seem to be very ignorant of the policies that have left low income families on the back foot.

if it wasn’t true, why do they think it’s appropriate to cut funding in deprived areas and deprived state schools and give more to affluent areas?

Why have they cut so many services that people rely on?

Why is there less out of work support than there was years ago?

Why are they literally CELEBRATING the opening of more food banks, as if it’s a good thing? It’s not.

Why are they not taxing rich people more even though they are already making billions, and leaving people to pick up the bill for borrowing instead.

Why are they expecting people to live on 30p meals when you can only make meals that cheap when you buy in bulk, which low income people cannot do? Ok, I know this isn’t policy but it came out of an MP’s mouth 🤣

You need an income below £7,000 to be entitled to free school meals? What a joke. Makes people struggle even more. MP’s on £80,000 a year plus expenses who begrudge a child a meal. And who by the way will get their energy bills paid curtesy of the tax payer.

No cap on the costs that can be charged for rent of a property.

Disabled people needing to ‘’prove they are still disabled’’ after a max of 10 years now, when before if you had a disability that was classed as life long they left you alone. And the majority of the time they don’t get 10 year awards, they are harrassed every two sodding years, even when the nature of their Illness means it will never get better.

UC has made life more difficult for people, a six week wait for payments, being sanctioned for ridiculous reasons.

There are so many examples of this. They treat people like they are a piece of scum.

So no, nothing will ever make me vote for that. Sorry.

My Tory MP’s voting record is appalling.

@FarFromHome2

Oh and let’s not forget this little gem of advice from this over privileged, wise old rogue

Before anyone calls me a liar again, I will apologise as I seem to have got one thing wrong about the cap on tenant fees, there is a cap, however, my own MP voted against it!

According to his voting record, he seems to regularly vote against things that would make life a little more tolerable for people, while claiming thousands in expenses, obviously.

I don't vote Tory but I'm guessing people value the class system, hegemony on one hand but the free market and opportunity to make money on the other. I think the Tories are seen as good for business.

The unions are important but people got fed up with lots of strikes.

No-one ever listens to this on mn but here we go.

Not everyone CAN do better.I worked hard at school but " failed " at teaching due to mh issues ( caused by being badly bullied at my expensive private school.)

I am now a AH professional in the nhs. I could work really hard and train to be a doctor but at 44, in this working environment ...no thanks. I don't have the temperament and nh funding has been cut making it very tough.

So no ....working hard dosn't equal great pay.If you have a business you could do well...or maybe before brexit / cost of living shit show but if you want to help people you are paid a pittance.

Tory bashing occurs every few hours on mumsnet..

Yawn.

Its really very boring now

So what i really want to know is: if you've been voting for the government over the last 12 years, have they delivered on any of the reasons for doing so? (and just saying "well, they're not Labour" won't cut it with me because that is not an answer)

Well truthfully my last vote was against Labour rather than for the Tories mainly because I pay a lot of tax already and would have ended up paying significantly more if JC had his way (which living in the SE with a giant mortgage for a small house would have caused our family an issue). And my tax burden hasn't massively increased so yes

Unfortunately this all got bogged down with mud slinging and sniping and not a discussion that moves anyone forward - so slow handclap to those who did that

Thank you to @Dragonskin for that. As i said previously people will vote in their own self-interest, of course and that is good and proper.

How do you think things like the NHS, schools, and other public services should be funded? Are you in favour privatisation? Would you be in favour of something like, say, medicaid/medicare in the States for those who can't afford it? (and an equivalent for schools/universities)

Maybe you aren’t lying (although the billionaires claim suggests otherwise), but you do seem to just post anything that you think justifies your views, without bothering to check whether it’s true or even rational.

I get it, you want other people’s money to be used to make your life easier. The reason that people vote Conservative is that they don’t agree, they expect you to provide for your own family.

You could have moved to a state school if you were not thriving at your very expensive school for the privileged. You could start a business at the weekends, or do an OU degree to allow you to change careers.

Struggling at school doesn’t have to define what comes afterwards.

Although I'm instinctively left-learning, I've got a lot of sympathy with many intellectual strands of Conservatism, and a lot of suspicion about many strands of left-wing thought.

I think lots of people are like this (I know i am - although i know most of my friends IRL think I'm an out and out communist) and this is why i think it is so so so important that the UK gets rid of the FPTP system and adopts either proportional representation or a combination of PR and AV. That makes a coalition government more likely* and usually leads to more centrist policies as the coalition partners have to agree on some things and compromise on others

*an efficient and effective coalition, not the shitshow that you had with the last one

So you admit yourself, 'In this working environment ...no thanks. I don't have the temperament and nh funding has been cut making it very tough.

You cannot up-skill, and make yourself more valuable because you have limitations. Others can, and that's why we have disparities in incomes. Whether that's equitable is beside the point. I too have limitations, I know, understand, and accept this. I have no need to covet what others have. I'm quite content in my life because of this.

I hate this route out of poverty is to get better jobs, promotions etc.
What about people who work in essential areas like care assistants or supermarket workers? Are you staying the deserve to be poor? Or that nobody should do these jobs?
I never quite understand how the 'work harder' argument tackles poverty.

I too understood BJ’s article as mocking the pseudo-caring, box- filling “left” as opposed to outwards hatred of PoC. The spectator leans to writing clever articles which should provoke the reader to think, not every single nuance needs to be explored and explained in words of one syllable.

im no expert on the “shit council estates” of London, Bristol and Birmingham (although ironically 😉, I do live in a council house), but I want better for their residents.

I don’t want those kids to reach age 12 and see their only options are “stay in your lane and collect £X/week” because you’re PoC and “tories hate you”, OR become attracted to “county lines” work because it’s an attractive wage. Whilst stuffing wee baggies through the letterboxes of the chattering classes in Nappy Valley.

I want opportunities for all. Throwing cash a La camilla Batman-jelly (😉) was an unaccountable fucking disaster. I want children who are born into disadvantage to have REAL opportunities- how about rolling out grammars? I went to a grammar and back then, the pupils were there from ALL backgrounds on ability - not because their parents bought a nice house and a tutor…

it’s funny really because my loudly-left antenatal quiche from mn itself, loudly proclaiming how wonderfully diverse London primary schools were - 90% had upped sticks to the Home Counties come high school! Because it’s ok when your kids are in classes with sweet little X from a shit estate when he’s 7, but you wouldn’t want it at 13! Hypocrisy abounds.

id like to see the abolition of student fees and a return to free university- again, entry upon merit - but because of my improved school systems - not writing off kids at 12 just because they are PoC/poor/living in a shit flat.

btw - I have no idea of Liz Truss’s background, but her accent is no posher than mine - and I ain’t straight outta Eton!

Re: BJ’s article - is he really swiping at the inhabitants of Africa? Or perhaps those who use its inhabitants as self promotional fodder? Eg a certain newly-pregnant journalist doing children in need “work”? Good photo opportunity.

No, I agree, you don’t understand.

It seems a real blind-spot with many on the left, the whole idea of increasing your skills if you want to earn more.

Look at it this way, you have two choices if you want to earn more. The one I suggest, which is changing career, getting promoted, running a business at the weekends and so-on, or yours, which is to do nothing except sit at a keyboard typing “It’s not fair! It’s not right!”

Which do you think is more likely to make a difference in your life?

Labour voters will be dining out on Boris for years now. It's what Labour do; never look forward, only backwards. Never look at why they are unelectable, just highlight the Tories' wrongdoings. @Scurryfunge12 has been a perfect example of this. How many hours did they spend, yesterday, saying the same thing over and over..never with real logic, just bitterness and general statements. The thread, itself, is another example of the obsession with the Conservative party. Instead of looking inward at where your own party gets it wrong, you just lash out on the same threads. This one, however, didn't go the way the OP planned.

"It's what Labour do; never look forward, only backwards"

And yet the Tories and their supporters continually blame labour for the current issues in the country.

Labour, who have not been in power for over a decade.

What does it say about the Tories if they can't fix the supposed issues that labour made 12+ years ago in the time they have been in power?
Only yesterday did Truss, during her #TrussTax speech, blame labour..

If you moved into a house 12years ago that had a leaky roof and you didn't fix it, would you be blaming previous owners or admitting it's your fault your knicker drawer is soaked..

Yep.

Well I can see why you've used the knicker draw analogy, given your user name.

You’ve completely ignored the point @Kendodd was making. Saying ‘get a better job or a promotion’ only works on an individual level and not a societal one. Yes it might make life better for that one person, but someone else will have to fill the low paid job they left and the problem is just passed on. It ignores that some of the lowest paid jobs are the most important to the functioning of our society. Care workers, healthcare assistants, retail and warehouse workers etc etc. Or do you think no one should do those jobs? Do you honestly believe there are enough well paid jobs out there for everyone that wants one?

What was said of anything like a similar nature about Liz Truss? Maybe you are referring to the attempts to deselect her for having an affair with another MP? I DID think that was unfair and hypocritical, especially as no one was trying to deselect him, But whatever was said about her was said about her actions as an adult. To attack someone for 'not keeping her legs closed' as a teenager is the absolute lowest of the low; and yes, I'd say the same if it was said about a Tory.

I am not a Labourite, or a member of any party, and have most often voted LibDem, though sometimes Labour. But I can assure you that there are just as many attacks on the left and even centrists as on Tories. Those from disadvantaged backgrounds are accused of being lazy and envious 'losers', who want to sponge on hardworking taxpayers. Those from better-off backgrounds are accused of being insincere 'virtue signallers', who can't possibly genuinely hold their views. All are accused of that modern cardinal sin of being 'woke'.

Do you realize the jobs/employment market is cyclical? So as groups of people enter one sector others leave. Usually up-skilling.
Now if a person can't for whatever reason then there will be a wealth gap, however, there's nothing wrong with wealth gaps. Consumer markets have goods and services for all levels.

For example, I have customers who pay £70 or one who was happy to pay £3850 for a set of bath taps.

Now the other issue is IQ and personal motivations, we're all different, and people have various reasons for being where they are.