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AIBU?

To not want my children to pay for tax cuts for the middle-class?

334 replies

antelopevalley · 07/09/2022 12:46

A new policy proposal to increase the ceiling for higher rate tax for individuals has been proposed so that it will only apply once you earn £80k plus. But there seems zero idea of how this will be funded.
Realistically the only way it will be funded is by increased government debt. Debt that my children and others will be working to pay off in the future.
Why should my children and others have to work in the future for tax cuts for the middle class?

Government borrowing should be for investment in the future. Building sources of cheap future energy for the future for example. It should not be used for short term political gains.

OP posts:
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Am I being unreasonable?

656 votes. Final results.

POLL
You are being unreasonable
60%
You are NOT being unreasonable
40%
Ohdearthatwasntgreatwasit · 07/09/2022 13:01

We have to incentivise people to do better for themselves.

If you want to benefit from this kind of tax cut, be a higher earner. Admittedly for most adults the ship will have sailed by the time they become parents, but the idea is that you drum it into your DC that they need to do better at school, get better jobs etc to be earning at this level.

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antelopevalley · 07/09/2022 13:05

So my children should pay the costs of incentivising middle-class people to earn more money?

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Shareornotwhocares · 07/09/2022 13:07

No. You teach your kids to do well so they can take advantage of the lower taxes

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MrsDanversGlidesAgain · 07/09/2022 13:07

Why don't you incentivise your children to earn more money?

How are you defining 'middle class'?

What's your grudge against the 'middle class' (however defined)?

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TigerRag · 07/09/2022 13:10

Ohdearthatwasntgreatwasit · 07/09/2022 13:01

We have to incentivise people to do better for themselves.

If you want to benefit from this kind of tax cut, be a higher earner. Admittedly for most adults the ship will have sailed by the time they become parents, but the idea is that you drum it into your DC that they need to do better at school, get better jobs etc to be earning at this level.

But we all can't be doctors, etc. We need cleaners, shop staff, etc.

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abovedecknotbelow · 07/09/2022 13:10

Why can't you encourage your children to earn more? What do you mean by middle class? Sounds like you are resigned
To sending your kids down the mines or similar.

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shedwithivy · 07/09/2022 13:12

The higher rate tax band was introduced to take more tax off high earners, as the threshold hasn't changed while inflation has continued, it brings ordinary middle income jobs into this bracket (including police officers, firefighters, senior teachers) I do think it would be fairer to stagger tax around this threshold rather than it being a sudden jump which also deters people from promotions or overtime if it tips them into the higher band.

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felulageller · 07/09/2022 13:13

No economy can support everyone earning £80k. What about all the people doing all the jobs that don't earn that?

Most people aren't capable of £80k jobs regardless of how hard they work, and/or do as well as they can in education. Are you condemning them for a twist of fate at birth?

The best way to 'help' these high earners is universal childcare, free uni fees and decentralising the economy from London.

I'm in support of these policies. I'd never support income tax cuts for people earning double the average pay!

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Kendodd · 07/09/2022 13:13

Don't worry op, the Tories will just sell off the NHS to pay for it.

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Emanresu9 · 07/09/2022 13:13

I’m sure the “middle class” will be funding plenty for your children and will continue to do so.

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MarianneVos · 07/09/2022 13:16

shedwithivy · 07/09/2022 13:12

The higher rate tax band was introduced to take more tax off high earners, as the threshold hasn't changed while inflation has continued, it brings ordinary middle income jobs into this bracket (including police officers, firefighters, senior teachers) I do think it would be fairer to stagger tax around this threshold rather than it being a sudden jump which also deters people from promotions or overtime if it tips them into the higher band.

But it's only the bit within the higher band that is taxed at the 40% rate, so they're fools if they turn down overtime or a raise for this reason!

(I'm aware that it's different for 100k plus).

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justaladyLOL · 07/09/2022 13:16

A good mate of mine is a self employed electrician from Darlington
Last year he earned over 100k
he is hardly middle class
He is a manual worker and very working class

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PAFMO · 07/09/2022 13:17

antelopevalley · 07/09/2022 13:05

So my children should pay the costs of incentivising middle-class people to earn more money?

I didn't much want to pay for your kids to go to school and get medical care, but hey, that's democracy for you.

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SleeplessInEngland · 07/09/2022 13:20

Ohdearthatwasntgreatwasit · 07/09/2022 13:01

We have to incentivise people to do better for themselves.

If you want to benefit from this kind of tax cut, be a higher earner. Admittedly for most adults the ship will have sailed by the time they become parents, but the idea is that you drum it into your DC that they need to do better at school, get better jobs etc to be earning at this level.

Lol, ok Ayn Rand. I really doubt someone at school is thinking 'gee, I better work hard now since they pushed that tax bracket up slightly'. They will or they won't regardless.

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Blossomtoes · 07/09/2022 13:21

The way the poll has gone on this completely astonishes me. Perhaps it was your use of “middle class” that’s elicited the responses from people who have drunk the capitalist Koolaid.

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Miajk · 07/09/2022 13:23

antelopevalley · 07/09/2022 13:05

So my children should pay the costs of incentivising middle-class people to earn more money?

Well they already contribute more financially towards a lot of things they'll never use or benefit from, and to overall public services.

I'm one of those earners who's child free by choice and my taxes already go to support your kids education so maybe stop worrying about what else I should be funding.

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antelopevalley · 07/09/2022 13:24

My children may have middle-class jobs in the future, but I am sure they will pay higher taxes than people do currently to pay off the staggering and growing government debt.

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antelopevalley · 07/09/2022 13:26

SleeplessInEngland · 07/09/2022 13:20

Lol, ok Ayn Rand. I really doubt someone at school is thinking 'gee, I better work hard now since they pushed that tax bracket up slightly'. They will or they won't regardless.

And if they have SEN and will struggle to do any job, tough luck.

My nephew is a labourer on a farm. We are all delighted as he has autism and there were serious concerns he would never get a job. He only has a job because the farmer accepts that he is a hard worker, but needs more detailed explanations and support than other employees.

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SlovenlyUnwedMother · 07/09/2022 13:28

justaladyLOL · 07/09/2022 13:16

A good mate of mine is a self employed electrician from Darlington
Last year he earned over 100k
he is hardly middle class
He is a manual worker and very working class

How many other "working class" people do you know earning over £100k?

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LolaButt · 07/09/2022 13:28

The squeezed middle?

Whats your proposal on an efficient and equitable taxation system then OP?

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antelopevalley · 07/09/2022 13:33

Average earnings for an electrician are £30-£34k. I suspect your mate employs people, that is how you make a lot of money in the trades.

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XingMing · 07/09/2022 13:34

In Cornwall, our plumber asks customers to source parts themselves to keep his sales below the threshold at which he has to register for VAT. Currently 85k.

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NCforsafety · 07/09/2022 13:34

And I don't want to pay for your children's education, health care, or many of the things my tax payments contribute towards but I have been so for over 30 years as I don't get to have a choice in that. I'm also not a high earner but pay highest tax rate. It sucks. I'd love the tax rate lowered.

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MintJulia · 07/09/2022 13:35

How do you know your children won't be part of that middle class? It may directly benefit them.

The Higher rate tax threshold has been dropping for years, in real terms. At the moment, despite earning about £50k, my incremental tax rate (made up of paye, national insurance, and Child Benefit reduction, means I receive about 37p for every £1 I earn.

I'm late 50s. I can carry on working for the next 8 years, contributing to GDP and to the govt's tax take, or I can retire and contribute significantly less.

At 37p in the £ which do you think I should do?

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Mardyface · 07/09/2022 13:36

The 'earn more' and 'aspirations' shite would fly better if 68% of the people in the cabinet and making these decisions were not privately educated. Given the individuals concerned I'm certain they have not got to where they were based on merit, intelligence, or even hard work.

You want to live in communities, you pay for other people as well as yourself. That's the deal.

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