To not want my children to pay for tax cuts for the middle-class?

[antelopevalley]

A new policy proposal to increase the ceiling for higher rate tax for individuals has been proposed so that it will only apply once you earn £80k plus. But there seems zero idea of how this will be funded.
Realistically the only way it will be funded is by increased government debt. Debt that my children and others will be working to pay off in the future.
Why should my children and others have to work in the future for tax cuts for the middle class?

Government borrowing should be for investment in the future. Building sources of cheap future energy for the future for example. It should not be used for short term political gains.

@antelopevalley I think you are misunderstanding the meaning of ‘middle class’

Some people choose not to have children but still have to pay tax to contribute towards your children’s schooling and healthcare.

We tried to find a brickie a few years ago to do some work and they were all working part time and didn’t want the work because it would take them over the tax threshold.

The UKs productivity is pretty shit and the tax system categorically contributes to that. We should be incentivising work not penalising those whose reach some arbitrary earning threshold.

It does not offend me, it simply misses the point. I know some people who have resigned. They are not all higher rate taxpayers although some are. They are mainly older people who have enough money to retire early. An admin worker retired in my workplace, she is a low earner but has enough savings to take her through to state pension age - she had had enough.
Teachesr and nurses often do not earn enough to be higher rate taxpayers. But even where they do, the extra money will be minimal. Not enough to persuade anyone to stay.

You do not understand productivity. The UK economy productivity is shit. That is not because people need to work more hours, they do not.
Our productivity is shit because of a lack of investment by companies and government.

And this thread depressingly confirms how little most people understand about basic economics.
I guess this is the reason governments can get away with telling the electorate things that make zero sense.

😂😂

Tax, national insurance, student loan, pension. You do the maths sweetie.

Personally I think there should be a flat rate rax of 33.3% regardless of earnings. Only the threshold at which you start to pay rate should change to £25k and education for salaries over 100k.
This would make the tax system easy and cheaper to administer and less easy to avoid tax.
You would not also be penalised for taking on promotion and a pay rise as in the current system when you cross into higher rate tax.

again, for children who will become adukts and keep the country running, and pay for everything, once you are retired.

And us people with children also pay tax btw (a fuck ton of it personally) it's not just you paying for all of us, if you ever get ill I grudge paying for the NHS treatment of someone who isn't bright enough to understand why the country needs children or how tax works.

Education =reduction

If they are paying less tax There’s more disposable income, which means they can go out more etc and keep people in service jobs and so on.

this of course doesn’t work if they’re either hoarding cash as terrified of financial apocalypse or it’s all going to the energy companies

I wonder if they understood tax brackets? Some people are under the misapprehension that once you go into the higher rate bracket, your entire income is taxed at that rate. It is only the amount that you earn in excess of the threshold that is taxed at the higher rate.

So, example 60k income, NI ignored

First £12,570 Zero income tax

Next £37,700 20% income tax

Above this 40% income tax

So, yes, income above £50,270 is less 'profitable' but there is no cliff edge as such

Actually I’ve just worked it out and from £200 overtime I would actually see £58.50, not £60!

The £50k threshold is actively turning people off working more hours.

Well I pay for your kids to go to school, have healthcare, child benefit, nursery placement and on and on it goes. I'll never use those things. Why should I be paying for them?

Why are you thinking your children won't be in a position to earn over the threshold?

No to mention the annual allowance and lifetime allowance issues faced by senior doctors, many of whom decide to take early retirement. Don't cry for them too much, it does mean that their pension benefits exceed £1million, but it does mean experts leave employment earlier, causing shortages.

Me and my partner are not by any definition middle class. Both from deprived areas, neither went to uni at 18. Both have since studied through work and we'd benefit greatly from this change. Hugely. And it's an incentive for us to continue pushing ourselves, and encourage our children to push themselves.

My pension, because by the time I retire it's pretty clear there will be fuck all state pension available.

Of course I care about the future economy, I have a son.

I don't want my ds to be saddled with huge debt either. But allowing the higher rate tax threshold to keep up with inflation - compare it with where it was 10 years ago - is simply maintaining the status quo.

And you should care whether I retire or not. For each person like me who retires early because it's not worth the effort working more, that's £20,000 p.a. lost tax to the govt and local council plus the corporation tax on the money I earn for my employer - (10% of another £500,000 so £50,000 p.a.).

Plus the loss of my skills and my ability to train up my departmental juniors.

It is always a bit of a red flag when a poster uses the broad brush term middle class as a pejorative.

There isn’t any such thing as ‘middle class’ any more. Many traditionally blue collar roles such as plumbers, electricians and builders now earn more than a lot of officer workers.

I actually agree that the tax cuts are pointless but not for the reason you think. It’s bloody pointless because it won’t address the real problems- failing public services and the energy crisis. How are tax cuts for top earners going to stop businesses going bust because they can’t afford to pay their energy bills?

I have a suspicion he might not be affected by the tax cuts..

oh right so your pension is going to keep the country and all of it's infrastructure running? Christ is must be huge? Or are you going to just stay in your house, never leave, not use any power, never need any healthcare and grow all of your own food because otherwise you will have to benefit from the children who grow into adults at some point.

Over £100k you effectively pay 60% tax on the first £23,500 plus Ni contributions.

Nice problem to have I hear you all shout but to take home less than half is ludicrous.

And yes if you have to pay for childcare etc why would you bother working extra days or overtime that might tip you into the higher tax bracket.

My sister's DH is a policeman. He stops doing overtime when he hits the tax bracket as losing child benefit as well it isn't worth doing the extra shift and losing out on family time for that financial reward

And I do not care about your kids. They're irrelevant to everyone except you and your loved ones.

Works both ways, doesn't it...

'Teachers and nurses often do not earn enough to be higher rate taxpayers. But even where they do, the extra money will be minimal. Not enough to persuade anyone to stay.'

OP - Very few teachers with 35 years experience earn less than £40,000.

The average nurses' salary in the NHS is about £35,000. Band 6 nurses can earn £40k plus. Those in band 7, a lot more.

The higher tax threshold needs to rise to encourage them to work a few more years. Or your child may simply not have access to the professional skills they need. This is an issue now, never mind the future.

How do you get to the point of blaming 'the middle class, and how do you define them'? Just on the use of fish knives, or the fact they say serviette instead of napkin, or toilet rather than lavatory?
Are you blaming them for global warming as well, or will you take some responsibility for that?