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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To end this friendship now I know what she would really think of me….

498 replies

EmptyHouse0822 · 07/09/2022 11:55

I have a friend and we met because our children go to the same school. It started off as just chatting on the playground, then going out with the children and now we will also go out just the two of us.

We have been friends for about 2.5 years and I would say we are pretty close in that we talk to each other about our problems and we know we can trust each other.

Anyhow, this morning, completely out the blue she made some very negative and distasteful comments about lesbians and although she was trying to pass it off as a joke the undertone was clear that she thought the concept of two women together was quite unpleasant.

The problem is that even though she doesn’t know it, I am bisexual and so her comments made me really uncomfortable. Obviously I’m married with children so she would have no reason at all to suspect I can be attracted to women and so wouldn’t see any reason why her comments would upset me on a personal level.

Even if I wasn’t bisexual I wouldn’t have found her comments acceptable at all.

But now I don’t know what to do. I don’t feel like I can carry on this friendship knowing how disapproving she is of an aspect of my life but as we’ve been friends for so long and out children are good friends it wouldn’t make sense to anyone if I just pulled away from her.

I don’t know how to navigate this and I’m already dreading seeing her on the school run this afternoon.

AIBU to just pull back from the friendship and tell her why?

OP posts:
Squiblet · 07/09/2022 17:23

Ravenpuff93 · 07/09/2022 16:59

@SlickShady I think that cuts right to the point of the debate though… the “god knows why” part of it. We know why. Because they are attracted to each other. Maybe because they love each other and they’re expressing that love.

To assert you have no clue why two adults might be engaging in sex acts does demonstrate an underlying homophobia. She dressed it up as humour and confusion and distaste for the acts, but a majority of us here recognise it for what it is.

Show quote history

This is it, exactly. What the friend was doing here was trying to distance herself from the men she'd seen on TV, doing things she found disgusting - and, by extension, distance herself from all gay and lesbian people, as she immediately demonstrated by broadening it out to women.

I suspect what has got OP so riled is the matey way the friend tried to drag her along in this distancing. The whole way she phrased the conversation (essentially questions, not statements: why would women do such things? who knows what they do?), and the conspiratorial laugh at the end, all these suggest the friend knew she was out on a limb and really wanted OP to join her there, so she wasn't alone.

Based on the comments, some people think this distancing is homophobic, some don't. Personally I think there's quite a lot of difference between simply not liking something, such as a sex act, and having this sort of conversation in which you make a big deal of the fact that you're not the kind of person who would do this sort of thing.

Original poster
EmptyHouse0822 · 07/09/2022 17:25

nopenotplaying · 07/09/2022 17:19

Some gay people are repulsed by the thought of straight sex, hence being gay. Is that not the same?

People aren’t gay because they are repulsed by “straight sex” - they are gay because they are attracted to the same sex.

The two issues don’t have anything to do with each other.

And I doubt many gay people are repulsed by the idea of a heterosexual couple having sex. Why on earth would they be?

Just because a gay man wouldn’t have sex with a woman does not mean he finds the idea of a straight man having sex with a woman repulsive.

OP posts:
UpYourOwnAss · 07/09/2022 17:28

Out of interest why doesn't your husband know you're bisexual?

nopenotplaying · 07/09/2022 17:28

I said 'some'. You haven't known this person that long and you clearly have differing views. I can't see that you are that close or she'd have known this about you already. I'd draw a line under the friendship but I would explain why. So she knows not to make assumptions in the future. It may be a good lesson learned which hopefully she passes on to her children.

DixonD · 07/09/2022 17:29

Tierne · 07/09/2022 12:02

the undertone was clear that she thought the concept of two women together was quite unpleasant

Shes allowed to feel that way for herself

I agree with this. I don’t consider the idea of two women together as “pleasant” because I’m not gay. Why would I? The idea would turn me off. She’s probably the same.

I wouldn’t end an otherwise good friendship over this.

Saynotothefishtank · 07/09/2022 17:34

It depends on how you view friendship OP. Do you only want to be friends with people who hold the same views as you? It’s entirely up to you, there’s no right answer. I used to only be friends with people very similar to me, but then had kids, moved, made mum friends etc and it changed how I see friendship.

I have a friend who is so kind and fun, just hilarious, and our kids are close, but I despise her political views and she is kinda dumb. I haven’t ended the friendship over it.

I also have a friend who has very similar politics to me, and she’s super clever and ethical and we have such interesting conversations and out kids play together beautifully. But, she’s so gossipy and bitchy, very disloyal to her other friends and I expect also to me. Still enjoy hanging out with her.

Another friend is just fab in every way but her kids are little thugs. I continue to meet her although I do try to make excuses so that my kids don’t have to see her.

Anyway, so, your new friend finds lesbian sex repulsive. Up to you whether that is the end of the friendship or whether it’s something you can just ignore.

Original poster
EmptyHouse0822 · 07/09/2022 17:38

UpYourOwnAss · 07/09/2022 17:28

Out of interest why doesn't your husband know you're bisexual?

He does, I meant that three other people aside from him know. I should have made that clearer but I just assumed everyone would know that my DH would know I was bisexual.

OP posts:
Day20 · 07/09/2022 17:40

OldFan · 07/09/2022 16:38

OP is bi yes but currently her preference is her husband.

@Day20 That still doesn't stop her also having same sex attraction at times in her life.

The bottom line for me is I wanted my children to marry the opposite sex

@Raul57 Why would you mind one way or another, even in theory? I mean, I'm Catholic now, but if someone were secular I don't see why someone would mind what sex of person their kid married.

State the obvious why don't you.

🙄🙄 like I said OPS friend was unaware and if she wants to fall out about the matter it is entirely down to OP.

Original poster
EmptyHouse0822 · 07/09/2022 17:41

It depends on how you view friendship OP. Do you only want to be friends with people who hold the same views as you?

This isn’t about holding differing views about something….it isn’t about me liking hot chocolates and her not….or me not wanting to be friends with her because I like watching Eastenders and she doesn’t…

This is about her finding something that is a large part of who I am, as being grim and disgusting and disapproving of it.

OP posts:
Mahanii · 07/09/2022 17:52

This is quite clear cut homophobia but I do think you should be honest about your views and have a discussion first. She may end up coming round, you never know. Some people just haven't been exposed to other ideas and parrot what they've always heard.

I was called homophobic and bigoted by a friend because I said people can't change sex. He also distanced himself from me and it really hurt.

Redorblues · 07/09/2022 17:53

I am just 😱 at the homophobia on this thread.

picklemewalnuts · 07/09/2022 17:57

Eating frogs legs, horse and snails is disgusting. Makes me retch.

Eating dog, cat and rat is gross. Makes me heave.

No problem with French people, Chinese or Korean people though.

pikiwop54 · 07/09/2022 18:07

Raul57 · 07/09/2022 16:26

Hands up I make non pc jokes but only to people I know. The thing is in reality I'm a very liberal guy and don't judge anyone by their appearance etc but I'd be lying if I said I don't lol etc and or make non p/c jokes but only with people I know.

The bottom line for me is I wanted my children to marry the opposite sex, same background or better, same colour skin/country/religion etc etc. However I'm a realist and come the time for our children to have a marriage etc the only thing that concerned me and my OH is that the OH ids decent, honest, hard-working and fits well with our kids.

I've had negative views against certain groups of people as IRL certain gorups of people do behave differently in different areas but when someone speaks to me in a normal way and or nice, I'd be a fool not to be nice to them and not respect them.

I like good/honest/sincere people and their race/colour/sexual orientation etc does not even come into it.

I would never knowingly offend anyone that did nothing wrong to me.

I hardly have a single friend for various reasons mainly me losing contact with all but some of my best mates at work have been from a different backgroud to me and they are often hit the headlines in certain crimes.

Live and let live within the local laws and as long as no one is being forced into something or being deceived who are we to judge.

OP. Just tell the friend you don't like that kind of thing and take it from there.

So not only do you not want to be gay but also don't want them to be in a mixed-race relationship? Nothing bigoted about that no...

fucking mumsnet sometimes

WimpoleHat · 07/09/2022 18:16

picklemewalnuts · 07/09/2022 16:39

We have a real issue these days with some kind of forced teaming of thoughts.

She doesn't want men in women's sports.
She's a transphobic cow.

She finds rare steak disgusting.
She must be a vegetarian.

She's trying to stop her neighbours smoking weed because she hates the smell.
She must be a boring old fart, who hates unemployed people.

She hates watching same sex sex scenes.
She must be a homophobic bigot.

This is very well put. I really, really struggle with the “I don’t agree with you therefore you are dreadful person” logic that passes for “liberal” thinking these days. It’s actually very dangerous.

KettrickenSmiled · 07/09/2022 18:17

SlickShady · 07/09/2022 16:56

@KettrickenSmiled

and she said god knows why any woman would want to touch up and do “who knows what” to another woman

She clearly was talking about the acts.

She clearly wasn't, because in the incident she boasted to told OP about, the TV scene was depicting .... men.

Women hadn't even been mentioned, yet she felt compelled to denounce woman-on-woman action as "disgusting" & "grim".

So obviously, no acts had been depicted, but she still needed to rant. There's a difference between quietly not wanting to watch specific sex acts, & generically denouncing an entire subset of human sexual orientation.

OldFan · 07/09/2022 18:20

@SlickShady People were commenting about how they viewed the comments of some people in the thread.

KettrickenSmiled · 07/09/2022 18:22

If we all thought two women having sex was a pleasant image we would all be lesbians.

Don't be fucking ridiculous. I can assure you I found the images of Heath Ledger & Jake Gyllenhaal making out on film plenty alluring, & I'm not a gay man. I find some lesbian scenes (so long as too much overt nudity, as funnily enough am quite prudish) very pleasant - women are beautiful to look at.

But I don't try it on with gay men, & I don't fancy having sex with women.

WrongWayApricot · 07/09/2022 18:23

I'd have just said something silly like 'I do, I love a bit of fanny' and then enjoy the ghosting she'd do if she is truly homophobic. If she wasn't then she'd come back and apologise and we'd have a laugh.

OldFan · 07/09/2022 18:24

People aren’t gay because they are repulsed by “straight sex” - they are gay because they are attracted to the same sex.

@EmptyHouse0822 Some gay men are definitely repulsed at the thought of shagging women, and of female genitalia. Referring to women as 'fish' etc.

Elsiebear90 · 07/09/2022 18:24

The amount of hoops people will jump through on here to try and say something that is clearly homophobic isn’t always surprises me.

No one is expecting her to be happy watching gay porn, but it’s quite bizarre for a non prejudiced or homophobic person to randomly bring up how disgusted they were watching a programme about gay people then launch into a little rant about how disgusting they find gay sex and that they have no idea why people would want to do it.

OldFan · 07/09/2022 18:25

@WrongWayApricot Some people are still very private and don't want to be out to many people.

Original poster
EmptyHouse0822 · 07/09/2022 18:25

Women hadn't even been mentioned, yet she felt compelled to denounce woman-on-woman action as "disgusting" & "grim".

And say that seeing woman-on-woman action is worse than man-on-man action.

Im not sure why one is worse than the other but clearly she thinks there is a difference.

OP posts:
OldFan · 07/09/2022 18:30

@EmptyHouse0822 Because it's closer to home I guess and she can more imagine how she would feel in the situation, as she's female.

PopPopPopP · 07/09/2022 18:31

When I was at uni my best friend said something to me. I can't remember what, but I remember reaction was to tell her I thought the idea of two woman together was creepy or weird or something. I didn't actually think that at all. I think for some strange reason I just felt threatened in the moment, or trying to assert my own sexuality or something. Anyway, I have always regretted what I said because it wasn't how I felt. This same best friend came out to me as gay about 10 years after that comment. It makes me feel even worse because I wonder now if whatever she said and I reacted to, was intended to be the time she came out or decided to, and I cooked up and said something which made me sound homophobic or that I wouldnt be accepting of her sexuality.

I also had a male friend at uni who said some incredibly homophobic things. He came out as gay about a year after he started making these comments and said the reason he had been making them was a mix of insecurity about people finding out his sexuality, and testing other people's views. Comments don't always reflect belief.

OP, I'm not excusing your friend, but maybe she said something she actually disagrees with, for whatever reason. Maybe give her the benefit of the doubt and explore the topic again in a way where she may feel open to admit less homophobic views

OldFan · 07/09/2022 18:32

I don't think her comment was good of course. She obviously assumed you were straight and on the same page. I used to identify as bi, so I can totally imagine how you feel.