Male period dignity officer sacked so whole idea scrapped...

[Chevyimpala67]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-tayside-central-62807683

Why?
Why not just give the job to - oh I don't know - a woman???

Why scrap it totally?

If a man can't have the job no one can?

Ffs.

Oh dear, I shouldn't have trusted the gynaecologist. Maybe I shouldn't have let him do the hysterectomy, although to be fair it did stop all the problems.

I would assume your gynaecologist went through medical school and training, I.e spent years and years studying the subject. Like most medical conditions, it's possible to treat after vast study despite not physically experiencing it.

This is not the same.

A surgeon doesn't need to appreciate the societal implications of menstruation to carry out a surgical procedure correctly. It's such a flippant comparison and completely misses the point.

A man is never going to have an in-depth understanding of the full spectrum of issues that women face with menstruation and menopause, whether it's the practicalities of bleeding or the societal response.

And funnily enough, lots of women have reported male gynaecologists as being remarkably blasé about the issue of periods, endometriosis etc. So sometimes even then it DOES matter.

I wouldn't expect to fully appreciate the difficulties a man might have with erectile dysfunction. Nor could any woman entirely. Of course I understand the mechanics, but it's so much more. It has medical implications, as well as self-esteem and social implications. It would be completely wrong for a woman to be spearheading and choosing the direction of any campaigns relating to this.

@SpidersAreShitheads
A man is never going to have an in-depth understanding of the full spectrum of issues that women face with menstruation and menopause, whether it's the practicalities of bleeding or the societal response.

A project manager on an awareness campaign regarding free period products law and ensuring government funds for those products are spent correctly doesn’t need this understanding at all. That’s what the Working Group that hired him need to have, which btw were four senior women.

He's a man and as far as I can tell he is an expert, years of training. He was brilliant and actually he understood my problems better than a woman gynae I'd seen previously. Maybe we just shouldn't make snap judgements.

I'm pretty sure he did, I wouldn't have been happy letting the work experience lad do it. The point is I was replying to a post that said men can't be experts on periods and I think some can so yes I think it is the same. Man who was an expert on periods and all sorts of gynae problems.

Typical Mumsnet feminists twisting the version of events to suit their own agenda.

He was not "sacked". The role has been discontinued due to people like you.

Slow clap.

Its actually because FOI requests went in about how many were interviewed and the sex and gender of those interviewed and the interviewees etc. To answer them I think would be a tad embarrassing. To prevent them being asked in a different way to get to the truth, the whole job is no longer a thing, so FOIs cannot be answered.

But yeah it really does scream out if a man cant have it, neither can any betterqualified woman

Apparently, this man was going to be supported by 4 women to enable him to do his job. It seems to have been more of a managerial role managing the people actually doing the job and a PR role. Which doesn't excuse it any way. Scotland has become a laughing stock internationally due to this nonsense.

This is just so typical of the Scottish public sector at the moment. In the middle of a cost of living crisis, they can't concentrate on the unglamorous and low PR basics, such as the NHS, roads and schools. No, they have to waste money on made up forms of wokeism which every other country in the world manages just fine without. Its almost as if Scotland is becoming the poverty capital of Europe. I can't believe they have invented a new form of poverty so that it can be monetised.

Scotland has had free period products in its public toilets for a while now, long before 5 people needed appointed in the county of Tayside alone to assist. They are in the mens' toilets too. Imagine if that representation were replicated over Scotland as whole proportionate to population. It would cost the taxpayer a fortune and require hundreds of jobs for Edinburgh and Glasgow alone.

I think its all part of the public sector/quango racket in Scotland and I wouldn't be surprised if the now departed Period Dignity Officer was friends with Mike Cantlay and his circle. Mr Cantlay appears to preside over a remarkable breadth of the public sector in Scotland. At the moment, he splits his week between working as Head of the Scottish Higher Education Funding Council and Nature.Scot, but has been chair of a huge range of public bodies and quangos including Visit Scotland, all while running his family tourism business. There is a whole network of people who go around these jobs, spending a few years in each.

I know... bloody ungrateful women, eh? Asking questions, wanting straight processes instead of bent ones (so bent that the job is axed rather than try to defend them)

Get back to the kitchen sink girls! Your periods and other people's use of them in various bent and inappropriate ways are nothing to do with you!

No, I agree. Snap judgements aren't helpful but this isn't a snap judgement, is it?

A very close friend of mine has just had a hysterectomy and her male consultant was great. Some male consultants are empathetic enough to appreciate the issues endometriosis etc cause and are willing to support treatment. But this is deeply different from a bloke who used to work in sales at a tobacco firm being appointed to run the campaign on menstruation and menopause. He has no relevant qualifications or experience. And he can't draw on life experience either.

A midwife or female nursing professional would have both.

Your surgeon was qualified for his job by virtue of his training. There's literally no comparison.

Jason had no medical qualifications in the field of women's health. And no life experience of what it's like having periods, and the barriers that women face. This is highly relevant to the role, as it would impact on women engaging with the campaign.

He was unsuitable on the basis of his sex, his lack of experience, and his lack of qualifications.

And none of this even touches on the optics of a young, attractive male being chosen to spearhead an issue which is 100% related to women.

I run a number of Youth groups and part of what we cover is sexual and reproductive health for young people who've experienced abuse and cse. Can tell you straight away there's no chance they'd engage with a male on this topic due to the intimate nature of it and their past experiences and they need to be catered for more than the person who fills this role. Sometimes we all need to step back and think just because we could do something doesn't mean we should and I think that really applies here - sure this guy could have taken the role and could maybe give a decent stab at it, but imo I don't think he should because if he truely understood it, he'd be able to identify that he's not the best placed person for it. Its laughable that they've argued there isn't a qualified female counter part who could do the role better, they've clearly had a very tight recruitment framework which is strange in itself considering the job description would be easily filled by a lot of community based or women's services workers, even health care workers. I think it also should be a diverse working team though, for example it would be great if they included transmales or non binary people who have periods in the team to provide even better support for people with that experience. A man (particularly one born male and identifying as male) is not the best placed person for the job just due to the nature of it and its mad to me that anyone would think otherwise never mind scrap the role completely instead of listening to and learning from the feedback. That action in itself shows that they have implemented it as a tokenistic gesture rather than as a much needed piece of work that should really be invested in and done properly. Absolute kick in the teeth to all the female workers who are challenging period poverty in Scotland who didn't get a look in.

I think @Discovereads was meaning "exactly right" in the sense of the comment I left was in line with what had happened, not that the accusations were right

Mr Grant, whose previous employment experience was in tobacco sales and as a personal trainer, is also quoted as saying:

"I think being a man will help me to break down barriers, reduce stigma and encourage more open discussions. Although affecting women directly, periods are an issue for everyone. We’ll also raise awareness of the menopause, which, although a natural process for women, has wider repercussions in the world of work and family."

‘It’s time to normalise these topics and get real around the subject,’ he continued. ‘I believe I can make progress by proving this isn’t just a female topic, encouraging conversations across all genders and educating and engaging new audiences.’

The danger with men who think themselves educated on the subjects of periods and the menopause is that they try to explain the problems that their fictitious woman has, when this may not be appropriate. I once had it mansplained to me by a male NHS physiotherapist that my fracture was due to me being a woman, rather than a fall. On and on he went, all about the menopause leading to brittle bones and so on. I actually fell off a mountain, aged 41. Could barely get a word in edgeways for him waxing lyrical on the menopause.

I mean, the role Period Dignity Officer is supposed to be the public face of the Period Products Act. They choose a man to be the public face of something that only affects females. If he was just a product lead, it would have been fine. But no, he was the face of the scheme. And in his opening interview he mentions wanting to include men/boys. It was incredibly tone deaf and just shows he has no comprehension of the female perspective.

A track record of engaging with .... in particular young people who menstruate. "

///

Firstly whoever wrote that job description, I think the words you are looking for at the end are - Women and Girls?

But anyway ... how anyone can say a man would be better at engaging with females about periods than a woman, is clearly a bit thick

When this came up previously the same mens rights comments were made along with the same whataboutery in very similar sounding posts.

I wouldn't waste time on bad faith arguments from posters who pretend not to understand why the 50% of the population who routinely experience harassment and humiliation at the hands of males (especially in schools) will include many who are uncomfortable talking to men on this subject

A freedom of information request was made, the response avoided answering all the key points. The response and the scrapping of the role seem may be coincidental or not.

www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/period_dignity_regional_lead_off_2

If a man - my lovely GP chap gets a pass here - tried to chat to me about the menopause he'd quickly regret it.

MNers in Scotland, I salute your patience and tolerance of all the stupidity you are being subject to

Ridiculous! If the job needed doing, surely it still needs doing?

They could appoint a woman??

And what abuse? Women being upset and incredulous and saying 'wtf have you appointed a man?' Is not abuse!!!

Being expert on medical issues is fundamentally different from having an awareness of the nuances that women face in society with periods, and the menopause.

Anyone with sufficient intelligence can learn from a book how the body works.

This isn't a purely medical issue. There's no issue with male doctors treating women, nor female doctors treating women.

Ask your gynaecologist how they would feel if they were in a public toilet and had just changed their tampon, blood on hands, and then heard two male cleaners mopping the floor and chatting. Any idea how a woman might feel, or what she might do? How about women who get told by male relatives that using tampons is "cheating on them" because it involves inserting something into her vagina - what would your consultant advise there? Or on a more mundane level, you're meeting a client and sat on their white sofa and you suddenly feel your period start - you're panicking that you might have leaked all over the fabric and through the back of your trousers. If you stand up, everyone is going to see your stained trousers and the sofa but you can't carry on sitting there. What the hell to do? Not sure the gynaecologist is going to be the first person you turn to for advice about this, regardless of how knowledgeable and competent he is on medical problems.

The whole subject of periods and the menopause is so much more than just a medical issue.

And if Jason was going to be entirely removed and remote, then they shouldn't have bandied around press shots of him sitting chatting with a young girl and her mum with a range of sanitary products. Jason also talked about how the fact he is a man would "encourage more open discussion and reduce stigma" so he very clearly wasn't going to be a silent and invisible person in the background.

His appointment was highly inappropriate.

That photo is actually a bit hilarious. I would love to hear him explaining the fiddly process of popping in ones mooncup

Indeed. Congratulations to Scotland for creating the first public male victim of womens' periods.

What a distinction.

This from the country which managed to appoint the Head of Rape Crisis Edinburgh which it did.

You missed the point, the post said men couldn't be experts on periods, didn't mention experts in what aspects of periods.

As for the rest well I'm sure any idiot can imagine it would be embarrassing to leak bodily fluids over a white sofa.

🙌🏽🙌🏽🙌🏽

I think it was fairly clear that we weren't expecting Jason to be able to carry out a hysterectomy.

The entire conversation was about periods and the social implications, not the ability to remove body parts.

Didn't really think this needed to be explained but apparently so.......

Yes, at the time of the job design the decision should have been made that the public face of the team, a so called Period Officer, should be a female role.

But once they decided that it was a good fit for the bloke they lost the right to apply a single sex exemption.