To have done a u-turn and set some boundaries with people?

[Gingerninja32]

Like many people on here, I was brought up with emotional neglect as my mother has had a very difficult life herself so emotionally shut down a long time ago and wasn't loving or present when I was growing up and is not present really at all for me now.

To cut a very long story short, not feeling loved and not feeling like I had much of a family has shaped many of my family and friend relationships. I often feel so keen to create the feeling of having friends and family I over give and I have realised this year to what extent I do do this.

I have started being more selfish for want of a better word this year and have made lots of changes eg moving my kids to a new school and saying no to charity requests and saying 'it's your turn to host lols' to people when i feel it has been me that has always hosted. In many cases though I have been burning bridges by being truer to myself.

I do feel more alone than I did but I am getting used to feeling happier on my own and i no longer feel used if that is the right word!! Am focussing much more on my husband and kids.

Just wondered whether anyone else has been through this and is getting better at standing up for themselves but have found that people around them are changing?

Good for you! That's amazing. And it's far better to have fewer friends than to be surrounded by users.

Thanks onthebrinkofchange! It has been a long painful road but I'm learning the power of no and I'm realising the emotions that were driving me to always say yes.... And always trying to create a feeling of family - that was a big one for me. But then I realised I already have a family- my husband and my kids. I know it sounds silly but I feel happier not giving and giving to and hosting second cousins and aunties when I am never going to find what I am looking for with them... and all that happens is that I end up feeling worn out and depleted from it. And slightly like I am the only one putting the effort in!

I didnt identify it as a boundary but I said to my parents "no more labelling me paranoid".

Well, they turned it around, attacked me, called me sensitive, gave me the silent treatment, were the martyred victims of me, talked about me not to me.

It's been horrendous. So painful and so DISAPPOINTING.

so... boundaries. Not all they are cut out to be.

.y mum also went martyr beast on me when I asked her not to let herself in and put books on my bed. Boundaries are "abusive".

Looking back I wonder would I even bother. Just detach detach detach and put up with her till she died.... might have worked better.

I did a similar thing over ten years ago. Far fewer 'friends' now but so much happier. Life is too short to spend it in unappreciated & unreciprocated service to others.

J0y that's so disappointing I'm sorry. Yes I think you are right on one hand setting boundaries makes you feel like you are taking control but on the other boundaries begin the process of changing the relationship with someone.

On one hand you can definitely understand the perspective of better to not have people in your life who are using you or enjoying you not having boundaries but on the other, it is painful to see how the relationships change and drift when you put in boundaries.

Nomoreshit I have to say I agree with you. Somewhere along the line I'd become the hoster to a few casual friends for playdates... guess what now I'm no longer hosting the reciprocity is nowhere to be found!! On one hand it is a bit sad but on the other I do feel a lot lighter!!

Ah yes op I understand completely.

What you are about to find out is just how many friends/family members are in your life that are simply using you. Pure and simple. It is not a comfortable journey. Once you withdraw 'services' whatever they may be, it is enlightening to see how many people drop out of your life because you are no longer doing their bidding/serving their needs.

Sit back, try to take an unemotional view and watch what happens.

There is no need to be upset or have an emotional reaction to people that have taken advantage of you for so long. Just quietly wave them off and don't look back.
In their place, people will trickle into your life that will give back. Pick up the bill, make time for you, invite you to dinner, ask you how are once in a while and mean it. It wil take time but your life will soon fill up with a different kind of person.
Yes you will still need to filter the dross and stay vigilant - both of your own and their behaviour. The minute you start over giving again, pull back and stop yourself. Soon you will command respect for your time and company. You will no longer feel 'grateful' all of the time in an unhealthy way to your friends and family, your life will be set on more equal footing.

Emotionally unavailable parents leave a huge hole in the hearts and souls of their children, a reservoir of unmet needs, and sometimes we frantically try to plug the hole with friends, stuff the pain with as many people as we can.
Try and redirect that energy into your own needs, future and life.
It might be better to spend the energy on counselling and exploring the void, and learning to take great pride in surviving a childhood that was so lacking in love and care. Realising you actually took care of yourself as a child in the end, and can continue doing so in adulthood. It kind of leaves a feeling that we are vulnerable all of the time, there is no safety net in the shape of parents, but in time you can learn to be your own safety net. Then other people become optional, chosen for the right reasons and in your life because they care.

Festoonlights wow... your post is very moving. Thank you so much for posting. I appreciate it.

There was so much neglect in my childhood and adulthood looking back it is quite astonishing. Not only were my emotional needs not met but very often the prescribed medication i had to take would run out. When I moved away for uni I was a heavy drinker for a while and very depressed. Concern was not shown and I was not offered help I have always felt 'left to it'in life.

I think the overgiving has come from two places - to try and create other strong family relationships and friendships that could fill the void you speak of in your post but also to not let others feel alone / fill the void in others so they didnt feel sad etc. However I have found that the more I give, the more people expect and it has started to feel uncomfortable for me as I recognise what is going on at a deep level.

One of the biggest takeaways from this whole situation is for me to be emotionally available for my children and to actively parent, if that makes sense, hopefully not in an over the top way! I just want to always be there for them and always be present for them.

Yes, agree with yr realisations. I want to make my daughter feel seen. Like I see her, I get her, she is free to be her. Not play the part I wrote. Well I didn't write one part for her, but ykwim, my mum did that for me.

J0y yes I get what you are saying! Children are emotionally taxing and I think my mum did not have the emotional resources to give to me. I wish she could have got some counselling and help for the abuse she suffered so she could have been present in her own life and present for her child.

I don't know about you but I've fallen into this overgiving pattern and feel like I've just woken up from a dream about it - I can finally see what I've been doing all this time. Definitely need to work on myself now but will have more time for this as people slowly drift away as I stop hosting!!

Yes friend! Good for you!

I don't have kids but I had to make similar changes for my own good; I would ALWAYS invite 'my group' for dinners, evenings out, etc, but they never hosted. Or, rather, they did, but they just didn't include me.

So I shrugged most of them off. I hang out with a couple of them now. One happens to be one of my closest friends and the other 'couple' got so f*ed off with it being a bullying, non-inclusive group, so they retreated. We now have a nice group that meets every couple of weeks.

But the others can carry on with their miserable, bullying lives together. I am glad I am not part of it.

I am no longer that person who makes all the plans, is desperate to fit in, etc, because my lovely group of friends make it clear that I can just be me ☺️

Hi op, you’ve been seeking their love & approval, you’re now seeing you do not need it, that you will never get it, it is absolutely futile. No matter what you do it will never be enough for them. Continue to put yourself first, focus on those that truly love & support you, all the best on your journey to healing your childhood trauma x

Yeah tbh I lost friends over it one is still pushing at my boundaries she is due in hospital soon so I'm expecting a dramatic request for help again I will have to say no its a bit mean but last time I ended up buying loads of clothes and stuff and running it up to the hospital this was for planned surgery why didn't she take her clothes?

Great News to hear of someone making a change, seeing it through. Thanks for telling us.
So many threads are about the person having trouble, getting a range of sensible advice but we don't hear if they achieved their goal.

I can relate to everything people have said on this thread. A lifetime of people pleasing caused by childhood trauma left me burnt out and resentful towards the people around me. I can honestly say I only had a couple of people who didn't exploit the hell out of me and that was out of luck more than design.

There is a tendency when you use fawning (people pleasing) as a defense mechanism to attract selfish people. Your lack of boundaries and abandoned self doesn't recognize 'users' so you end up giving where others would run a mile. I cringe now when I think of some of the things I have done to try to get people to accept me. Not one person has put themselves out for me. It doesn't work.

Pete Walker has produced a very good book on CPTSD and the 'fawn' response. Understanding why you do what you do is a very powerful tool in recovering from this maladaptive behavior. Also weirdly, MN and reading about others people pleasing tendencies has helped. I can spot it a mile away from the outside which has helped me notice my own tendencies to over give and over help.

Selfish ex-husband, toxic family if origin, scapegoating by toxic friendship group, one-sided best friendships. Been there, done it but turned it around with lots of therapy and making myself a priority. Good luck with your journey @Gingerninja32 . You will find yourself with a lot less people around you but it's worth it.

"Boundaries are the distance at which I can love you and me simultaneously" Prentis Hemphill.

What an outstanding post!! 👏
Good for you and you summed it up so brilliantly at the end, feel like I am now 'fawning' god help me, but actually just celebrating and reflecting on your post.

Real question: did you end up with ANY friends left? And if you didn't how did you manage without them? Dacquoise

I still slip into fawn with new people, how do you stop yourself.....do you think through what you are going to say? I am worried my kids are learning this kind of communication, and although the PP is under control, and boundaries are in place. I still even now slip into fawning. I am not sure I even know to communicate without complimenting someone, being 'nice'

Sorry op, but I had to get those questions out there.

Festoonlights great questions and I can relate.

I think my current wave of friends or one sided friendships will drift because I have probably subconsciously been giving off a needy filling the void vibe... we shall see. I imagine i will keep 3 or 4 old friends and one or two family members who I have real honest and balanced dynamics with. Other than that I will make an even bigger effort with my kids and husband!

Marikali I shall remember this quote!! Thank you.

Agree.

Your post was also excellent too @Festoonlights .

I love that quote @Marikali

Well done OP.

One thing to mention is to try not to beat yourself up over past behaviour, it is a real waste of time.

Better to be happy and proud of moving forward.

I love this quote "I do better because I know better".

TW: This thread is definitely for me. There was significant emotional neglect in my family growing up. Along with parents who were authoritarian and disregarded emotions I had two bullies of older brothers, one who abused my sister and I, which was terrifying and absolutely horrible the other who endlessly taunted and was cruel to us. But the lack of emotional care from my parents has affected me enormously. When the abuse from my brother came out my father said appalling things to me and sided with his golden child son completely disregarding and dismissing my experiences. The other brother the same, my children lost their entire extended family on that side. My children were gutted because from their perspective they loved their cousins.

My FIL also physically and emotionally abused MIL so that side is tricky too. It was one body blow after the next with those people. You only get one family it leaves a hole when they betray you in the way I was betrayed by them.

I hear a lot about boundaries being the solution but what I have learned is that for a lot of people who emotionally neglect their children and families where that happens it creates an environment where people have absolutely no regard for boundaries. Because of their own issues you have to set your own limits and involve them in your life on your own terms.

@Festoonlights what worked for me was therapy, lots of it. I am in the very fortunate position of being able to fund it myself, which I know a lot of people can't. It has effectively reparented me so that open void inside me has been filled with....me. I am good enough, as simple and as hard as that seems. Also yoga, meditation and hobbies that put me in the zone, like art, literature studies, walking. Anything that floats your boat, to create your own identity, because as a people pleaser you tend to spend all your time supporting others passions and that includes your children. It is not SELFISH to take care of yourself.

To answer your question, yes I became very isolated when I got out ie NC with my awful family, divorced my utterly selfish exH. I went from a large circle of friends and acquaintances to less than a handful of people, barely went out for a few years. Not one person in my so called friendship group contacted me, Chief Bully persuaded them to support my exH! Also my brother, who I was support person for, threw me under the bus.

Christmas was just me and my daughter for a few years. Sounds awful, and it was at times, but I used the time well. Read everything on toxic families, trauma, attachment styles, psychology at the same time as intensive therapy. Went back to work, in a supermarket, non demanding job but surrounded by 'normal' people who didn't play games, which helped my need for company. I think literally being on my own helped me to develop as a person and wean me off the addiction to other people and their approval.

When I meet new people now I see myself as their equal and don't need to prove anything. I don't self monitor myself at all. They can take me or leave me (not everyone will like you, who cares!) and I decide whether they are friendship material, acquaintance or foe ( finely tuned bullshit radar in place). I would advise you to work on your self-esteem to get past your impulse to fawn. Once you accept yourself, warts and all, the need to please seems to disappear.

It seems I've found people who understand exactly how I am!

Thank you for your posts. It's actually made me feel emotional. I'm currently in therapy and this is exactly the work I want to be doing atm. My self esteem is low and therefore boundaries are non existant or waver if I put them in.

My childhood was the same too. And I know this is why I am the way I am and why all friendships and relationships have been the way they are. I'm a people pleaser and overhung every interaction. It's quite exhausting.

But reading this thread has given me hope that I can change it all

Regarding friends, I'd rather have five 20p coins than a hundred pennies.

Congratulations on your road back to self.

It sounds long, and hard at times but nothing worth doing is ever easy - and the prize of finally having your own back - literally standing on your own two feet and after all of this time was definitely worth the investment and some.

I know you must have been extremely lonely for a while.
I felt that too at the beginning.

This huge huge void where the self servers used to be. It was a staggering abyss in my experience at one point, one I wasn't sure I could manage and wanted to run for cover and start pleasing/serving and scraping again. I didn't go back on the second time, and saw it through, and there was great satisfaction kicking the bloodsuckers out of my life once and for all. I even welcomed the loneliness to some degree because it was proof I was actually getting somewhere, at the very least able to identify a taker.
But a taker can never take, unless we allow them and so it is on us to make the change, not them.

Your journey sounds great, really inspirational - thank you for sharing it with us.

How did you cope with Christmas? What did you do to make it easier? Perhaps the 'worst time of the year' for those of us with toxic families.

I don't fawn very often now, but I do tend to slip into it when I am nervous or with certain people. I am aware of it. I am not sure why it happens, but yes you are right if you are standing there asking if you are happy/comfortable/liking the other person - and checking in with yourself so to speak there is very little need to fawn, because you are the one that is assessing and not just stressing about the impression you are making etc. You are doing the deciding. It is a more empowering position.

Definitely have a look at the Pete Walker book if you can. Also meditation and yoga is a fantastic way to get used to those pesky feelings that cause your reactions. You can train yourself not to react unnecessarily. 😊