To have done a u-turn and set some boundaries with people?

[Gingerninja32]

Like many people on here, I was brought up with emotional neglect as my mother has had a very difficult life herself so emotionally shut down a long time ago and wasn't loving or present when I was growing up and is not present really at all for me now.

To cut a very long story short, not feeling loved and not feeling like I had much of a family has shaped many of my family and friend relationships. I often feel so keen to create the feeling of having friends and family I over give and I have realised this year to what extent I do do this.

I have started being more selfish for want of a better word this year and have made lots of changes eg moving my kids to a new school and saying no to charity requests and saying 'it's your turn to host lols' to people when i feel it has been me that has always hosted. In many cases though I have been burning bridges by being truer to myself.

I do feel more alone than I did but I am getting used to feeling happier on my own and i no longer feel used if that is the right word!! Am focussing much more on my husband and kids.

Just wondered whether anyone else has been through this and is getting better at standing up for themselves but have found that people around them are changing?

The one thing I realised in all of this, and I have been on this journey for years, is that most of us (not all) are 'social species', we need other people in our lives. It is the way we are programmed. I thought I could 'over ride' this by intellectualising my withdrawal. In the same way that most of you have said you did not feel better/lighter/joyous especially for ridding yourself of the users, you just felt at best okay - some of you felt less than okay and felt lonely/lost/isolated. We are not programmed to go through life alone, it is not conducive with a good health and well being.

I have tried a number of different ways to burrow out of this conundrum. On one hand we need friends/social life etc on the other hand it brings a great deal of pain/anguish and self sacrifice. So the only thing that has worked well for me is to replace what was lost.
If I am getting rid of one group because they were toxic, I need to replace the group with something else. A meditation group, an art class, join a choir.

Stripping your life is helpful if you are going to do a deep dive on a personal level, as it allows you to start from ground zero, re programme and then start again slowly.
But if you are not looking to do that/or can't do that because of your circumstances then I would recommend replacing. Like for like, but this time very very mindfully. Choose something that won't test you immediately as a fledgling but something that will help your journey - it should contribute to your social well being without taking away your boundaries. You can build up to more challenging connections, but personally I found a gentle approach, that was slowly replacing all the toxicity with light and well being. Step by step to be the most beneficial one for me.

I did the stripping out altogether after a relationship that was littered with violence. I started at ground zero then and built up, what I had not factored in when I was doing it - was the simple fact that it is not just harmful men we have to watch out for, but those closest to us as well. It is very disarming to be 'supported' through life by someone that pretends to have your back, on their terms. The fixer busy fixing you is very tempting. But you are back in the triangle the minute you go there. You fix yourself, and sometimes that means ground zero, and sometimes it doesn't.

We need love, connection and good times to make our lives happy and full but that should never be on everyone else's terms.

So true, when I come across people like that, as a more or less just take me as you find me 90% of the time, I find that is so true. There is a sickliness and desperation about people pleasers that feels off. It is different from being charming, welcoming or caring. There is an undertone and more than a hint of real desperation. I feel sorry for them. I think I used to be that way.

I see it in others very clearly. I worry other people with less integrity see it as clearly as I do, and of course they will take full advantage if they are that way inclined. It is an open door.

There is one lady I know who is in deep with people pleasing, and she almost pleads for friends, coffees etc - I find it very embarrassing to observe, she is seemingly unaware that she does not have friends precisely because she does this. If you wanted to take advantage/use someone, you would probably start with her...she is one of the nicest people I have met in a long time, and that is part of the problem.

had not factored in when I was doing it - was the simple fact that it is not just harmful men we have to watch out for, but those closest to us as well. It is very disarming to be 'supported' through life by someone that pretends to have your back, on their terms.

This was what happened to me

I was sitting with my sister last autumn and I basically said the exact words to her nearly like for like
I said 'its not just men...' and suddenly the whole world shifted into HD
I sat in silence for an entire weekend in complete shock about my revelations
I stopped whatsapp, instagram and facebook
I just went cold turkey
And guess what?

Not a single one reached out me
Not a single one.
Except the ones I already knew were friends - the handful 4/5 kept in touch
The rest of them gone and never heard from them again except the toxic text in March demanding reasons for my silence (who the fuck does she think she is) and it did not surprise me

My question is how do you get over the sheer anger of when you have these realisations

Sometimes I am so angry looking back in retrospect I could scream
Sometimes I shake thinking about the comments and how people treated me
The little comments 'jokes' and digs
I suppose its like coming out of a toxic relationship - the memories unlock and you unpack them bit by bit

It actually gets worse the safer and longer away from them you are - I feel worse now than I did last year. I did not even realise what was happening

Ignorance is indeed bliss! fresh

I guess everyone deals with the anger differently. With some people just dropping them out of my life was enough. Others I have told them how I feel in person, called them and written to them and told them precisely what they have done, and how it has made me feel. I didn't hold back. I wasn't rude, but I told them I am done, I am simply not having it. The letters to family members that I wrote were not for their benefit but for mine, so I had closure.

Feeling that anger - is great news - it means you are finally standing up for yourself, your needs - and about time too.

You are now on your own side finally. Would it not have been more worrying if you had shrugged your shoulders and not cared? Not cared how badly you were treated, the number of times they took advantage of you, the sheer audacity of them! Your anger is there to keep you safe fresh to ensure this doesn't happen again, and if it does you will see it this time and prevent it from continuing.

I was also angry with myself for a while, how could I have let this happen? Was I stupid to keep going back from more mistreatment?
But that is the inner critic again isn't it. Was it your fault you had such a difficult childhood? You were raised to shut up and keep everyone else happy. That your life was reduced to a commodity pretty much. How is that your fault? How can you have the wisdom to know what was happening to you as young person? If you have been taught to bow to everyone else' needs how do you break free if you can't even see it is happening? It takes a lot of insight and personal development to even notice the traits, especially as everyone else passes them off as a good thing!! (of course they do, as they get to benefit)

I cringe when I hear people say 'Oh Grace from the church is such a nice lady isn't she, so giving of her time' I immediately think the poor bloody woman is of course a people pleaser ! I wonder how much she has sacrificed to be considered 'nice' by the other women, and if the spell was to be broken and Grace stopped giving, would they still consider her nice? After all she is the same person....

Be angry
Be very angry
Embrace it.
You are fully entitled to be absolutely furious, and if you want to tell us why, go for it, get it all out if you don't want to tell the parasites directly.

We are learning from the realisations, we are learning from the anger.
You are back on team Fresh!

One of them is called Grace
The Universe is speaking to me today

I was thinking of doing a ritual this Friday where I write a letter to each of them - with a bottle of wine of course and burn it
I did it for exes and it seemed to help
Every single one and I dont feel anger towards them anymore
Its the anger towards the woman I trusted who I thought were on my side who I thought had my back - only to find out they were using my sob stories to feel better about themselves
Oh. The anger.

Oh yes I feel the anger strongly too!! It's the realisation that you've been taken for a mug in your eagerness to have the social connections spoken about in this thread.

The anger could be devastating. But I think the anger is speaking to us and telling us we need to now be vigilant, now we are aware.

Also the anger is telling us we need to forgive, for our own sake. I believe we need to forgive others and we need to forgive ourselves. So I am going to join you, fresh, with the letter writing this weekend. I know who I am going to write the first four letters to already!!

And then I am going to write a letter from myself, to myself. And maybe one to my inner child who has been through far too much and i will be telling her she doesn't have to put herself through this mad behaviour anymore! And to just be!

Well I posted one of my letters, it was an unintentional grenade, I can't recommend it.

Keep your counsel. Enjoy your wine, and your thoughts and get it all out of your system, where it is not there chewing you up from the inside out and causing tumours.

We definitely can't change them, but we can change our reaction to them.
I enjoyed learning how this works, if anyone is interested. You can use these techniques at home to help bring balance and calm and identify your feelings/inner critic etc:

www.thecounselingpalette.com/post/7-magical-steps-in-cognitive-behavioral-therapy-or-cbt-change-your-thoughts-change-your-feelings

For me the letters will be written but not sent!!

Thanks for the cbt link I will take a look.

In the self compassion work book (kirsten neff phd qnd Chris germer phd) there was an exercise to write to your 8 year old self. I found myself very upset and sad so write the letter when you don't have to go and face anything challenging right after.

I deserved to be heard and seen. I wasn't. I was the part my mother wrote for me and the very first time I put my own feelings above hers, I was written out.

It's so shocking and disappointing.
I can only be included in the family if I accept the long List of flaws projected on to me and also accept my mother is perfect qnd right

Same at @Festoonlights
It wasn't one raking over my childhood though. It was qbout the present.
Do not label me paranoid. Do not call me sensitive when I say don't call me paranoid. Do not call me angry when I say don' call me sensitive.

Where did it get me? Over two years (qnd 5 months) of martyred silent treatments.

My mother truly believes she is the victim of my abuse.

I haven't skipped through the anger too quickly it's only just starting to burn out now 2 years qnd 5 months after I said "this hurts me, stop".

Anger is a warning to what we need to protect ourselves from. When I read that I felt better about the Anger i feel / felt.

I did step back from a really dysfunctional dynamic that family will NEVER acknowledge.

I'm the trash can for my mother's repressed emotions.

I dont suppose she will ever agree with that

I hear everyone about the anger, it took me years to get over it and I am still triggered sometime when I remember events long archived in my memory.

However, the feelings of humiliation and shame were worse for me. As pps have mentioned people pleasers don't come across well to others. I had a 'best friend' from the past constantly telling me I was'too nice' just before she did something unreasonable that she KNEW I wouldn't say no to. Total contempt.

The thought of being that obsequious and willing doormat is very painful to remember. But I take full responsibility for that and vow never to over do, over give or try to 'bribe' acceptance from others again.

The other thing to consider is that no matter how many users and takers you have surrounded yourself with, you were actually alone all the time. They weren't offering the support or companionship you thought. It was total fantasy Can you ever remember actually feeling even liked by these people? I can't.

I have also realised that I didn't actually like them in return. The last best friend that I ended up binning for a one sided friendship I found quite dull and irritating. Why the hell did I serve as her support human and financial subsidy for twenty odd years???

Fawning is living on autopilot, dictated by your limbic system from trauma suffered donkeys years ago.

OmG
I was told I was 'too nice' by a friend who was using me too
What the fuck
And that I under reacted

Are we all living the same life here?

I also had the wake up during the pandemic that I had been alone anyway for years

@Happycamper2022 , it's like they're warning you or taunting you that you're a mug and they're going to take you anyway isn't it? It's like being helpless prey of a hyena just before they bite.

Helen Mirren was asked once what she most regretted in life, she said not telling enough people to f**k off. How I wish I had been strong enough or ballsy enough to do that at the time!

Now I think I would be able to. However, I like to act with dignity and have used assertiveness to put a couple of people (so far) straight (whilst having potty mouth thoughts running through my head)!

It's useful to learn stock phrases so you're ready for them as they like to catch you on the hop. They'll soon find somebody else or deal with things themselves.

I am 33 and I am a glad it happened to me at this age

Good for you @Happycamper2022 , I wish I had realised at your age, would have saved myself years of pain.

I said nothing - I just went ghost mode. Seemed to make them more annoyed. I think they would love a paragraph of text to screenshot to each other and gossip about.

Another here who’s mother exploded and life imploded the first time I had a boundary.

My abusive ex, same story. Ramped the abuse right up.

Friends - were never friends. Same story as everyone here.

This all happened so quickly. It felt like I had been a character in West World who suddenly over-rides their programming! And all the characters in my life were angry about it. It was upsetting and disorientating. It scared me too, like I had been under a spell my whole life.

At first I had some horribly lonely, isolated feelings. Some weekends when I ended up alone I would feel a pit of doom in myself and cry curled up in a ball.

I think there’s something to be said about the primal urge in us to be an accepted part of family and community, in whatever form that takes, as part of survival. If a mammal is ejected from the herd, it’s likely to die.

I spent years of birthdays and Christmas’s having a private cry, missing my family physically but mentally not wanting to go back. Each year it got easier as I worked on myself and time passed.

Now I am very careful who I let into my life. My walls are very high, which can be difficult at times when people want to be my friend and I see everything suspiciously.

Agreed Original it is a deep rooted human need to be accepted by others in our families and communities / workplaces etc but there comes a point where we have to love ourselves enough to realise what we are doing and how damaging his behaviour is to ourselves.

I am really noticing the silence around me this weekend, I used to cook for a set of friends or family members most weekends or have a bbq during the summer. I wonder whether I will ever hear again from some friends now I am not hosting or inviting. I feel a bit sad but mainly I feel wiser, and free.

I am still planning on doing the letter writing exercise!! Maybe not just yet but I will.