To have done a u-turn and set some boundaries with people?

[Gingerninja32]

Like many people on here, I was brought up with emotional neglect as my mother has had a very difficult life herself so emotionally shut down a long time ago and wasn't loving or present when I was growing up and is not present really at all for me now.

To cut a very long story short, not feeling loved and not feeling like I had much of a family has shaped many of my family and friend relationships. I often feel so keen to create the feeling of having friends and family I over give and I have realised this year to what extent I do do this.

I have started being more selfish for want of a better word this year and have made lots of changes eg moving my kids to a new school and saying no to charity requests and saying 'it's your turn to host lols' to people when i feel it has been me that has always hosted. In many cases though I have been burning bridges by being truer to myself.

I do feel more alone than I did but I am getting used to feeling happier on my own and i no longer feel used if that is the right word!! Am focussing much more on my husband and kids.

Just wondered whether anyone else has been through this and is getting better at standing up for themselves but have found that people around them are changing?

@Festoonlights , those feelings around certain people are a hangover from past experiences ie that tall grumpy woman reminds you of that aunt that got drunk and screamed at you when you were ten.

I still get strong reactions to certain people or situations but I try to figure out what I am being reminded of. It's your limbic system warning you of possible threat so your body gets ready to fight, flee or fawn. Not so terrifying when you think about it that way is it? Another worthwhile read is the Chimp Paradox by ?

My daughter and I created our own special Christmases when it was just us two. We spent all day in pajamas, watched whatever we wanted on TV, lit candles and had the full works for lunch even if it was on a tray. She still likes that sort of Christmas, probably because it was about US, me and her sharing the day. We tried a couple of Christmases with friends and didn't really enjoy it so refused invites. It's interesting how some people equate Christmas with huge get togethers.

Previously when I was married I was the family slave who did it all for everyone else, large gatherings rarely ever reciprocated, run ragged and exhausted. Total martyr, disrespect ed and didn't even enjoy it. Now it's my lovely partner and daughter, in pajamas, or we invite his family if we feel like it. I honestly don't miss all the parasites.

@Dacquoise Wow! Great posts.

Money, time, and effort, very well spent.

Thank you @billy1966 . This is such a common problem from dysfunctional childhoods. I just wish everyone could access therapy when they need it. It would save on such a lot of pain and mental health issues that are passed down in families.

Thanks for this thread OP. I am on a similar journey and in the process of shedding multitudes from my huge circle of 'user' acquaintances. It is astonishing seeing these people in a new light to realise how absolutely horrible some of them are. They really did see me coming and targeted me, and I was so grateful for their attention.

@Dacquoise your posts are excellent. I’m taking notes. Xx

That is so interesting the triggers of fawn, fight or flight. I tend to get the sensation when I am around some, but not all, artists, venture capitalists and actors, some fashion types and most strangely some doctors. Not all by any means.

I noticed they usually have one thing in common: self absorption. I would literally fall into the fawn. And be looking at myself wondering WTF are you doing....and I found it hard to vocalise my thoughts, opinions on subjects etc and to bloody stop with the compliments and the gushing and just observe my own feelings around and question whether I wanted to be there, or was I just 'grateful' to be invited, included. I can snap myself out of it, but if I am tired/strung out/I have to be careful in new situations that my default is always fawn.

One thing that has always worked is asking myself questions on arrival. Is there a good vibe here, am I enjoying it? Are these people good people for me? If I have the wherewithal to ask those questions I usually feel very centred from the beginning and don't slip into fawning. I try to habitually ask those questions but it sounds like you have totally mastered the art if you are able to more often than not not self monitor.

Christmas I dread. The biggest test of our ability to remain true to ourselves is always Christmas. I am tempted to do huge parties and invite all of my so called 'friends' for the twinkly Christmas I imagine I need, only to find the cost was huge, I have spent no time with my children, the friends are not on the whole the least bit grateful for the days/weeks of work and effort, they don't bother to make any effort themselves from one year to the next and use my gatherings as a way to consolidate their own interests/friendships. Literally 'using' me in the process. I know this. And yet every year I wrestle with it, because I like a house full of people, it fills that family void very nicely and it blots out the pain of my terrible childhood christmases, and the fact my parents are very much alive but unreachable. So I admire you doing Christmas on your own terms, and putting your own needs first, and not burning yourself out to deliver everyone else's dream Christmas but yours.

What are others experience of Christmas?

I love all of these posts, and the total honesty and kinship I feel when i read them. Thank you op for starting such a great thread.

Wow, love that

Lovely thread with no (yet!!) bitching!
As I've got older I've realised I don't NEED people round me. It's just me & my (grown up but still at home) kids. I sort of can't be doing with friends, planning to meet up & then they can't / won't etc, I started to wonder if it was all worth it? It's not! I love my own company now, & as I've mentioned before, feeling a bit lonely at times is another word for freedom.. I just have a chat with myself & realise I can do whatever I want to do!
Christmas? Low key, twinkly, cuddly, playing Trivial Pursuit with the kids & digging in to Quality Street! Lovely! :-)

@mamabear715 you are so right and you are really selling that Christmas experience.

Mamabear715 your life is how I see my near future!! And it honestly sounds great. It speaks to me of freedom from disappointment and a lighter way to live.

To be deep for a moment (or even deeper! Lol) I feel that so much of life we are fed by the media/ hollywood/ culture etc etc is an illusion... the perfect friendships and relationships with family... the busy social perfect Christmas etc.. romantic love in the purest sense etc. The reality has slowly been dawning on me that genuine happiness is to be found in moments alone / with close family / an old friend perhaps / just when they happen. This has been a game changer for me and has made me realise that much of where I have been coming from has been to fulfill the creation of something that can never exist or not to the extent that we would wish for it!

When you truly wake up and realise why you are running yourself ragged to host etc and where the need is coming from for that, everything starts to make more sense.

The contributions to this thread have been brilliant, thank you!! I am loving reading it.

Well done on breaking free op.
Does anyone have any recommendations on how to move on from toxic family members?

Jibbajabba1 I have gone low or no contact on the worst offenders in my family. Obviously my mum has always been low contact with me - even as a small child sadly!! So there it is.

I have come to the conclusion that any kind of toxic family member only has a negative affect on me. It's just not worth going through that cycle for me anymore.

The Christmas thing is interesting.

There is no doubt about it but through societies conditioning, it is often the barometric measure with which so many decide if their life is successful.

My husbands Christmases were a huge gathering of busyness after his mother died suddenly, and he remembers them as busy, noisy, packed and overwhelming.

Through circumstances we chose to spend our first married Christmas alone abroad in our pj's, doing our own thing.

He adored it.
Said it was his best Christmas ever!

We never spent a Christmas with family since. We had 4 children and Christmas day was Godless, children in pj's, us utterly focused on them having a lovely day.

We see family over the holiday period but we have always done our own thing.

The children say they have the loveliest memories of it being, simple, relaxing, enjoying their toys.
They chose the main course for lunch every year.

I have never regretted the simplicity of it.
I am surrounded by women who largely would give it a miss because they are the linchpin in their family's Christmases, but wish they weren't.

My position was that the children had Santa for a precious few years and I had no intention of dragging them around from A to B, when they really wanted to be at home with their toys.

I have always wanted my children to remember it as THEIR day, hence the new pj's for Christmas morning and allowing them to dictate the food menu.

Your Christmas sounds absolutely perfect @Dacquoise

Like any addiction, the withdrawal from the Christmas fantasy can be very tough. The first couple of Christmases without the masses I felt pretty alone and abandoned and had a quiet cry on my own.

But then I realised how authentic and soul affirming it is to just do simple stuff with someone I genuinely love. How enjoyable it is to actually be present and benefitting from the day. Who knew! Waiting on other people is hideously soul destroying.

How many of you can't remember the Christmases you hosted because all you did was graft? How many women on MN post about their nightmare Christmases with arsehole family who are blatantly rude and ungrateful?

Me and my partner are hoping to have Christmas abroad in the future if and when my daughter has her own plans with inlaws. Think beach, sun, cold beer and not a Christmas tree or santa in sight 😜

I think for many many women this is the case.

Hot, frazzled and worn out after Christmas day, waking up on the 26th thanking Christ it's over for another year.

Hosting is full on.

I'm a great cook and well used to catering for double digits, BUT it IS work, and the older I get, the less inclined I am to do it.

I only cook for those I truly care about, everyone else can hop it.

I completely relate to what you are saying. In the past two years I chose to cut contact with toxic family members and the toxic man I was seeing.

I finally came to the realisation that all my life I had been allowing people to treat me poorly because I have been raised to be a quiet ''people pleaser'''.

I was normalising abusive behaviour because it is all I had ever known and deep down I thought I did not deserve any better.

I reached the absolute bottom when the man I had been seeing assaulted me.

At that point I decided I wanted to change my life and the way I handled interacting with others so that I could become better at protecting myself and not allowing people like that in my life anymore.

I had trauma therapy which was incredibly helpful.

I also started to reevaluate my friendships. I realised the majority of these so- called friends were just acquaintances who always expected me to bend over backwards to accommodate them and who only called when they fancied going out and they had no better option available than good old me...

It is amazing how different the world becomes when you are able to establish good boundaries.

Redqueenheart thanks for posting.

I am new to making these changes and have started by saying no to things i would have said yes to in the past. Also I have recently said 'your turn to host next time!' In a jokey way to people we always host at ours and have had a bit of a shocked reaction I suppose. Now my expectations are changing i am expecting people t fall away. How did you cope when you first started making changes? Was it hard to do and did you feel lonely?

I have to be honest I did feel very lonely at first, and isolated at times - but I reminded myself of the alternative. Obviously not everyone has the same experience but this is what happened to me:

1. Some of my friends really did step up and the friendship deepened significantly into something much more honest and authentic. I dropped my pleasing and started being truly myself and no one ran away screaming 😄and started stating my needs. I have ended up with less friends but better quality. Many others waited around for me to revert to type - eventually they gave up and didn’t step up. Some were easier to deal with/ let go than others.

2. I started to enjoy going out and having light hearted conversations with neighbours, the community and found it enriching to do charity work as I finally had time for. I wasn’t constantly hosting anymore or organising the next thing. I looked for company elsewhere.

3. I started getting things done for myself, home and children. When I stopped running around others it freed up time to breathe, to look after myself, to cook, to exercise. I felt I had a degree of control over my life again.

4. I was spared the social pressure that comes with many of these friendships. No longer forcing myself out because friend x expects it.

5. I started reimagining my next stage overseas. A dream of mine at some point.

I used to worry who would come to my funeral if I finally asserted myself !!! How silly is that, it’s not like I would be there to notice!! 😂😂 Keeping the plates spinning so I get a good send off is the very epitome of how sucked in I had become.

Christmas and milestone birthdays ditto!

Have a plan - hold onto anyone that steps up but don’t worry if no one does, because eventually decent people will find their way to you op 🙏🏻

Thank you for sharing your Christmas stories - feels very reassuring to read

Thank you Festoonlights.

I already feel lonelier in the sense as I didn't host much over the summer holidays we had fewer playdates with other families which the children picked up on. I have fewer nights out in the diary going into autumn because I haven't been reaching out to people and suggesting things. So already I feel I have more control over my time but yep a bit lonelier already.

Part of the process I guess!!

Thanks for the thread @Gingerninja32 It’s very thought provoking.

You will get used to it, and so will the children op.

I told my dc the truth, we need to have balanced friendships, unless there are good reasons not to (ie illness, death, MH issues, divorce etc happening to our friends - serious stuff - then that is different) but otherwise if it is just the case other people do not prioritise inviting us back or have become too busy (seeing/using other people), then we won't be doing all of the playdates here any longer.

My dc wholeheartedly agreed, and told me they were fed up of always having the overly generous/walk over Mummy, and in fact my dd confided in me that she felt it used to come across as 'needy' at times, and undermined her ability to manage her friendships well. When she said that I felt shocked, and horrified actually, that I had been ultimately 'training' my dc to become people pleasers by default!! A massive wake up call ensued op. I was glad I realised when I did, as they were young enough for me to change things and model a better example.

My dc have excellent boundaries around friends now. They drop users and dementors and have a fine tuning system for mean girls too. We no longer bend over backwards to accommodate others, and do things on our own terms. I have now independent teens that have healthy friendships and as good balance. If nothing else, I have managed to stop the rot for my kids, I am still working on myself though.

Don't be afraid to have quieter summers, embrace the lack of invites as free time you didn't have before. Not all of the parties/dinners etc would have been fun (at all) it would have just meant even more people pleasing for you most likely. With less opportunity you can spend more time practicing on just being yourself, ifyou know what I mean. Get used to being with you again. Reconnect with your priorities and dreams and not be constantly being bombarded with other people's. Autumn is a lovely time for a reset I always think.

Watching this thread closely

I did this last year
The backlash. Horrific.

Am I happier now? I would say about the same. I realised one friend was using me to feel better about herself and another group of woman bullying me. I now no longer dread texts with streams of gossip I never asked for - no longer have messages enquiring into my love life (a specific interest) or patronising / belittling messages. The friends who do message me I know 100% care. Making way for new friends and relationships is lonely but I have faith.

What happened fresh? In terms of the backlash?

I am sorry that happened to you, but it does rather illustrate the point that these people had no respect for you and your wishes.

@Festoonlights

Essentially the rumour mill started churning
I went off whatsapp
Limited social media.

One said 'i stood her up' last August
Not true
I sent her a message to say I did not wish to meet her for our twice yearly walk which I was dreading. I told her I would be unable to meet her and never stood her up. She had seen me twice during the entire lock down period. Never introduced me to her new partner she has met a year before covid. When my uni friend and I randomly met them in a bar she was so weird and actually hid him from us.

She then went to the group of bullies and created a witch hunt for me
I recieved a horrific message from one in March (no contact with them for a year) demanding an explanation for my absence
I showed my therapist who said it was not a message - it was a grenade.

All of these people knew I lived alone during lockdown and never once checked in with how I was. It was only when they realised I was no longer available to them that it all kicked off

Massive speculations and gossip about my reasons for silence. Never mind the years of abuse they put me through. They treated me like a dog. On 'meals out' they would literally speak over me, once I arrived late (due to work) to an event and one opened the door and screamed at me 'where the fuck have you been', another told everyone I had herpes, another told a guy I was seeing I only got my job due to a colleague fancying me, when I got my job promotion one of them refused to look up from her phone for about a week and never made eye contact. I ended a long term relationship in 2018, I went on one date six months later and they screamed at me at the dinner table saying how it was too soon, I always need to be in a relationship and I need therapy. I cried at the table. The list can go on and on.

They know full well why I am not speaking to them, theres about 6/7 of them and one of me. Its obvious to an outsider I would say.

@Freshstart111
Ugh.. that all sounds horrendous.. who needs 'friends' like that?
As I've said before, 'lonely' is another word for free, in my book.. so pleased that you have faith. :-)