To have done a u-turn and set some boundaries with people?

[Gingerninja32]

Like many people on here, I was brought up with emotional neglect as my mother has had a very difficult life herself so emotionally shut down a long time ago and wasn't loving or present when I was growing up and is not present really at all for me now.

To cut a very long story short, not feeling loved and not feeling like I had much of a family has shaped many of my family and friend relationships. I often feel so keen to create the feeling of having friends and family I over give and I have realised this year to what extent I do do this.

I have started being more selfish for want of a better word this year and have made lots of changes eg moving my kids to a new school and saying no to charity requests and saying 'it's your turn to host lols' to people when i feel it has been me that has always hosted. In many cases though I have been burning bridges by being truer to myself.

I do feel more alone than I did but I am getting used to feeling happier on my own and i no longer feel used if that is the right word!! Am focussing much more on my husband and kids.

Just wondered whether anyone else has been through this and is getting better at standing up for themselves but have found that people around them are changing?

@Prefernottosay maybe when your kids are older (late teens / adults) they can connect with their cousins and forge a relationship with them. Hopefully because of the loving parenting they have experienced from you they will have good judgement and boundaries.

Also just to say I am so impressed with all of you - it is inspiring to read about people who have experienced such awful stuff and come through the other side, stronger. Thanks for taking the time to explain it.

I didnt
And I think they know

The oddest thing is a remember having semi similar thing happen to me at uni - very similar energy. After a few years two of them did come forward and apologise - it coincided with all of this happening

It felt the universe was saying 'its not all in your head'

@Festoonlights
Your post re the effects on your children is amazing. Well done you! I will put myself out for family but even that - well, may be outing but let's say people can be happy to watch you do everything while they sit back & know all's taken care of..

@Freshstart111 Absolutely, re the Universe.. I do kinda believe it lets us know that we are on the right path.
I guess your ex friends still talk & wonder, while secretly admiring you. Not that they'd ever tell you that!

What a lovely thread this is, with lovely people. I feel uplifted today! Hope you all do, too! :-)

They had their chance

Its amazing how physically irritated people get when you have boundaries

On Sunday I had arranged a date with a guy from a dating app, he lives close to me. He forgot the date, his reason being he had rugby training. I just unmatched him and forgot about it. If he was that keen he would have confirmed a reschedule etc. He walked past my car last night and was so angry in his eyes. Its quite laughable really.

@Freshstart111 , what's interesting in this is the tendency to become the victim of bullying when you don't have boundaries, particularly in groups. Why do friends act so aggressively towards people they see as 'weaker'? What's that all about?

Also I have found that bullies do know what they're doing and often turn up years later trying to reconnect? One particularly nasty specimen who pivotal in my expulsion from my friendship group contacted me a couple of times to meet up years after? Seems to have forgotten how awful she was towards me. 🤔

Also my brother who threw me under the bus when I broke away from our toxic mother. Turned up on my doorstep after ten years of completely ignoring me, expected to be invited in like nothing had happened!

Haven't accepted either of them back in my life. My brother has now gone NC with my mother and suspect the friendship group has imploded but why turn to the person you disliked so much you scapegoated them? Would love a rational explanation if anyone has one?

Not sure why they do it
I suspect its to get gossip as thats the level of their consiousness
Anything other than gossiping about each other comparison with husbands and job titles seens to surpass them

The issue is they seen me as 'weaker' and as I ramped up in work they freaked - quietly over taking them all without the need to bully others or outwardly appear aggressive
A 'real' friend said my ability to be underestimated is actually my strongest strength as it conpletely bamboozled people
I became more successful than them all and I was younger - it was venom
I suspect thats why I have recieved the U turn backlash socially - they just did not suspect I would ever have it in me to tell them to actually get to fuck (quietly)

On my birthday I recieved a message from one instead of happy birthday
'So partnership eh? 😂'

I mean its fairly clear what was happening

I didnt remove any of them from SM just muted them and when I post a story guess who are first to view it?! The duchesses of misery

Perfect response @LarryBlackmonsCodpiece

Congratulations OP

@Freshstart111 , I have to say it was one of the most powerful and satisfying feelings to reject those that had rejected me. Didn't do it in an aggressive way but genuinely didn't feel anything but indifference towards either of them, priceless. Once you get over that compulsion to fawn, you truly are free. I see it as karma in action.

So keep dropping the rope ladies. You don't need people that cause you so much grief and pain. You are all good enough as you are 😉

Well done @Freshstart111 on your success. As they say the best revenge is happiness.

What an appalling friendship group.
Isn't it strange that from the outside looking in, it is obvious where things went wrong fresh

Anyone 'with boundaries' on the very first occasion enduring that kind of behaviour, would have taken a pretend call and said to the group, 'guys I have to go, its been great seeing you again' and walked out. And probably not returned. Had they returned, certainly the second time would be the last. They would know to leave a group that was so toxic. People that have been emotionally neglected loathe to leave any friend or any group, don't recognise red flags and are used to being treated badly.

Your continued presence at the table, and the subsequent occasions you met up with them gave them the green light that you did not mind being used as the group's punchbag. You would put up with anything. Their opinion no doubt would be if you don't respect yourself, then why the hell should we?

I am certainly not victim blaming here, simply contrasting the differences in responses to the same behaviour. A person with boundaries would think there is no way I am seeing those witches again, what an awful bunch and that would be that and they wouldn't see them ever again. You (and I, and others like us) would think it maybe us, question and doubt ourselves, what did we do to create that tension and problem. Rather than look outside, we would blame ourselves for the failure to integrate into the group - and see it as a character flaw in ourselves rather than look at the real culprits and realise they are just horrible people and not good friend material.

I am glad you saw the light, and kicked them to the curb. No friends is better than be bullied like that.

I also wanted to say those types of groups, the only way they bond (in the absence of real feeling, common interest etc) is to unite against something or someone. It is literally the only thing that holds them together. I imagine they still speak endlessly about you, have you seen fresh/seen her update etc. Even though you won't have seen them for ten plus years! I have seen this many times in vacuous groups.

Another one here with similar childhood experiences. Unfortunately took me til nearly 60 to finally try to put boundaries in place with my narcissistic mother whereupon all hell broke out, I'd never said no to her before😳. Been a people pleaser all my life, I've not had therapy but mumsnet (in particular stately homes thread) helped me a lot to understand why I was the way I was and what to do about it. I'm a few years further on now and I'd say after the initial fallout and consequent few months of dreadful stress/experiences and feeling very 'alone' I am in a much better place. I had very low self esteem, self conscious, definitely 'fawning'. Now I've come to realise that people can like me or not, it doesn't really matter. The people that matter to me are now very few, my adult children and a couple of good friends who understand my situation but my life is blissfully peaceful and I can be my authentic self....... All be it a little late🤷all the best with your journey 💐

At least you got there moss Thats the important thing.

Totally agree with everything you are saying about group dynamics @Festoonlights . A more secure person would have just walked away (or told them where to go the first time they were nasty).

However, another level to the fawning mechanism, I actually knew the group I was in was toxic the minute I met the two ringleaders, I could read the body language that they didn't like me, yet I hung in there trying to 'fix' both of them by being nice. It seems completely nuts when I look back on it. Now I trust my gut and exclude as soon as I see unpleasant behavior.

In my family of origin we had several blatantly nasty characters, no one was brave enough to confront them so we all danced around accommodating their behaviour.

Mossstitch thank you for posting. I am 50 now so not far behind you!! Wish I could have had the realisation earlier too but better late than never!! I am going to see any potential loneliness coming down the track as freedom so thank you mamabear for that one xx

In my family of origin we had several blatantly nasty characters, no one was brave enough to confront them so we all danced around accommodating their behaviour

Same with mine, we had to be extra nice to gloss over their foul behaviour. Glossing over, walking on eggshells, fawning and not confronting poor behaviour becomes entrenched from a very very young age. We are so accustomed to it by the time we reach adulthood we continue putting up with piss poor behaviour - and continue to be nice and that will fix things and smooth things. It never does, the aggressor sees a limp response and only gets worse.

A lightbulb moment truly came to me when I discovered the Karpman triangle. Read about it, and then look at your every one of your own relationships and tell me you can't see where you sit in the more toxic ones. It is very very interesting when you consider any relationship that falls into the Karpman triangle is going to have a negative impact on your, regardless of where you sit in the triangle.

I knew I had made it in life when I could not name a single relationship (apart from the LC one I have with my parents) that fell into the Karpman triangle.

In this case, if we apply the triangle "fresh* was the victim.

No good can come from any relationship where you see this kind of dynamic forming.

www.listeningpartnership.com/insight/about-the-drama-triangle-and-how-to-escape-it/

This thread is very timely. I'm feeling so deflated about "friends". Just this morning DH and I were talking about how there's never any reciprocation. We host BBQs, parties, get togethers. But no one ever invites us back, or they seem to have another set of friends that they do group stuff with that doesn't include us. I've said to DH there's no more at our place until some other people make the effort. We used to have a new years eve party every year, loads of faff, loads of effort. I was very clear recently with 2 of the mum's from this group that we'd not be doing a new years eve party again, they looked at the floor and looked uncomfortable.

I feel bad for my DC they've got used to the big social whirl in our house but now they're older I think they're noticing how unequal it is.

DDS friend has been on 6 holidays with us. I felt "bad" for her mum as she was a separated parent and had money issues. However it's become so common place that she no longer even says thank you for taking her daughter away. She went on holiday recently with her DC and didn't invite DD. I have to admit to be fuming. She could have offered. DD was hurt. I do feel a bit lonely now I've put some boundaries in place but hopefully soon that will pass.

Courgeon I know exactly how you feel about putting the breaks on on the hosting.

This thread has made me feel that I'm not alone and I can enjoy this autumn without feeling tired and resentful about endless hosting and getting ready for a big Christmas for other people who have come to expect it but who have no will to reciprocate.

Looking forward to going into this season in a quieter and calmer way and focussing on what makes me happy.

You will find people will make the same old excuse 'oh but Courgeon LIKES doing it all' What would she do with her time if she didn't cater to us for heavens sake. She loves it!

Ah, but does Courgeon love constantly hosting and paying out for people that never feel the need to once in a while to say 'hey Courgeon, feet up it is our turn next week/month/year'? Does she really like to be taken for granted? For sure they will continue to accept your goodwill, time, money and effort as if was nothing and never reciprocate to the end of days if you let them.

I had a few turning points. Last Christmas we were cooking for fourteen and my dh (who was thoroughly sick to the back teeth of my 'giving and never receiving' ways) turned around to one of my friends with a smile and said ' Do you think hell will freeze over first before we get an invite to yours'

I was MORTIFIED! But he was right!
The following week an invitation arrived, I nearly declined, I was so embarrassed. It took a comment like that to finally dawn on her that for years she had been coming to ours, and hadn't thought to occasionally return the favour.

My MIL had a 3 strikes and you are out to everything. From dinners to christmas cards. I remember thinking how callous to dump a friend over such petty things, now I think she was actually right. She didn't take any prisoners and people respected her for it.

I agree
And I agree I played into it
I look back at the 'red flags' and cringe
Every one of them within the first six months of knowing them said / done something horrific

These are all seperate examples of different people in the group of 'bullies'

1. when I told her a friend committed suicide she said 'was that because he had met you'. She used to storm away when walking together at work
2. I had been engaged whilst working with this one and the passive aggressive comments - 'oh wow look at you all grown up' whilst staring at my finger. Constant rota drama and pissing people off at work
3. I took her key as she had a room on site. I stayed in it during an overnight. I went to return the key by meeting her in the train station - she screamed at me 'real friends return things immediately' - snatched the key off me and stormed away.

Its like looking back at an abusive relationship in all honesty. And seeing more red flags than the soviets

I am actually more traumatised by these female friendships than with guys
I guess I realised I had no boundaries with men and after a year of unpicking that I realised the women were as bad

Also come from a single parent very deprived family and worked hard to be self sufficient

DH has actually reached his limit with our selfish friends and has pointedly stated "it's your turn this time" with certain occasions/events, I would have been embarrassed previously but now I don't care.

One Xmas I organised a post Xmas festive buffet at ours (always at ours as we have a bigger kitchen, no other family has the "room") for extended family. DH and I spent all morning preparing and making home cooked food, tidying, prettying the place etc. My parents arrived with some dips and crackers from the coop they'd bought en route and sister and husband turned up with some freezer snacks. I was so upset I felt like shoving it in their face. We'd specifically stipulated it's a shared buffet can everyone make and bring something nice so we have a decent spread? The effort was calling into the nearest coop on the way and grabbing a couple of things. So sadly at Xmas we've had to say no more to family.

Currently quite low about the whole situation to be honest. Feel like we need new friends! But am very wary of people now. Think they're mostly users.

@Freshstart111 wtf! Do you think anyone ever stood up to this piece of work?

I remember an instance where one of my tormentors was making rude and opinionated comments to someone at a dinner out. Her target suddenly flipped, told her to f**k off. We spent the journey home consoling the bully's floods of tears. @Festoonlights , drama triangle in action!