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AIBU?

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Original poster

Aibu to think the nurse crisis could be solved if they had an incentive for people to become nurses

354 replies

Starsinyoureyes13 · 04/09/2022 17:52

A student nurse doesn't get paid to study and train on the wards. 37.5 hours and due to lack of nurses they are working alongside nurses wouldn't it be better to pay the trainee nurses and give nurses a payrise rather than NHS squandering money on £60 pound an hour agency staff?

OP posts:
honkeytonkwoman38 · 04/09/2022 17:55

They do it's called an apprenticeship nursing programme of which 100s are already running!

ClocksGoingBackwards · 04/09/2022 17:57

There should be more of an incentive for care staff too, and teachers and school support staff.

GetOffTheRoof · 04/09/2022 17:58

Remove fees for study for a start.

Hobbitlover · 04/09/2022 17:58

Those who gor the bursary don't have enough to live on either

Merryoldgoat · 04/09/2022 17:59

They should pay them properly. That would help. I earn more than twice what a nurse does with no degree, flexible hours and a lot less responsibility.

MatildaTheCat · 04/09/2022 18:00

Recruiting people to train isn’t the problem. It’s retention that’s a total scandal and has been for decades.

carefullycourageous · 04/09/2022 18:00

Merryoldgoat · 04/09/2022 17:59

They should pay them properly. That would help. I earn more than twice what a nurse does with no degree, flexible hours and a lot less responsibility.

I agree. Pay properly and give proper visas.

VirginiaWool · 04/09/2022 18:01

Wages need to rise across the first five deciles. Nurses aren't paid enough but they are paid more than a lot of other people, who also aren't paid enough.

CornishGem1975 · 04/09/2022 18:02

Controversially, I don't think nursing should ever become a degree profession. It's a vocation.

Many people who go into nursing do so a bit later in life.

They've put a lot of blockers to people wanting to change to nursing in later life. For instance, my friend in her mid-40s wanted to train as a nurse but she didn't have the required GCSE grade in maths. So she would have had to do a foundation course or GCSE maths first. Despite the fact, she has a levels, a degree, and a masters in another subject. So she never bothered. That surely doesn't help.

Another friend is in her 3rd year of student nursing and it's been brutal. Her experience at university has been dreadful. The actual student nursing itself, not so bad, though not everyone is welcoming on the wards, but university has been a painful experience.

titchy · 04/09/2022 18:06

Controversially, I don't think nursing should ever become a degree profession. It's a vocation.

Presumably you don't think medicine should be a degree profession either then as it's also a vocation?

VirginiaWool · 04/09/2022 18:06

Well nurses are now professional medics and the tasks that nurses used to do are now done by HCAs, so you can't dial that back.

But everyone needs to be paid more. Including HCAs who are really now nurses on the cheap.

mycatisannoying · 04/09/2022 18:07

ClocksGoingBackwards · 04/09/2022 17:57

There should be more of an incentive for care staff too, and teachers and school support staff.

👍

titchy · 04/09/2022 18:07

For instance, my friend in her mid-40s wanted to train as a nurse but she didn't have the required GCSE grade in maths.

Yeah you're right - who needs decent maths skills when they're working out how much of a drug someone needs... Hmm

ScaryFaces · 04/09/2022 18:07

CornishGem1975 · 04/09/2022 18:02

Controversially, I don't think nursing should ever become a degree profession. It's a vocation.

Many people who go into nursing do so a bit later in life.

They've put a lot of blockers to people wanting to change to nursing in later life. For instance, my friend in her mid-40s wanted to train as a nurse but she didn't have the required GCSE grade in maths. So she would have had to do a foundation course or GCSE maths first. Despite the fact, she has a levels, a degree, and a masters in another subject. So she never bothered. That surely doesn't help.

Another friend is in her 3rd year of student nursing and it's been brutal. Her experience at university has been dreadful. The actual student nursing itself, not so bad, though not everyone is welcoming on the wards, but university has been a painful experience.

If you don't understand why nurses might need to be able to demonstrate some basic maths skills, then you don't understand what the job requires

titchy · 04/09/2022 18:09

And yes retention is the problem - there's no shortage of applicants! But retaining them once qualified is a nightmare - which would partly be alleviated by better pay and conditions.

annoyedneighbour1 · 04/09/2022 18:09

& midwives.

For every 30 new midwives that qualify, 29 of them leave.

I'm in my 3rd and final year of training, and I certainly won't be the 1 idiot staying. There is no support for newly qualified midwives and the preceptorship is laughable.

I pay £9,250 a year for the pleasure of working 37.5 a week. I love the women, but the job is completely unworkable.

How I've managed to stay afloat financially over the last 2 years, I don't know. I've just about managed to keep up with my mortgage payments, god knows what will happen this year with the energy costs.

Don't forget... they're trying to make the NHS fail. Don't be fooled into thinking they care. There are plenty of simple things that could be done to make the NHS more efficient.

ClumpingBambooIsALie · 04/09/2022 18:10

CornishGem1975 · 04/09/2022 18:02

Controversially, I don't think nursing should ever become a degree profession. It's a vocation.

Many people who go into nursing do so a bit later in life.

They've put a lot of blockers to people wanting to change to nursing in later life. For instance, my friend in her mid-40s wanted to train as a nurse but she didn't have the required GCSE grade in maths. So she would have had to do a foundation course or GCSE maths first. Despite the fact, she has a levels, a degree, and a masters in another subject. So she never bothered. That surely doesn't help.

Another friend is in her 3rd year of student nursing and it's been brutal. Her experience at university has been dreadful. The actual student nursing itself, not so bad, though not everyone is welcoming on the wards, but university has been a painful experience.

You do need prospective nurses to be able to demonstrate a high degree of literacy and numeracy though, don't you? They have to be able to take in and interpret lots of written and numerical information, quickly and accurately, and apply it properly; manipulate numbers correctly and confidently; produce accurate and comprehensible documentation… it would be a shame to take someone onto a nursing degree programme only to later find out they don't have the underlying skills they need to safely nurse patients.

hazelnutlatte · 04/09/2022 18:10

What they really need is an incentive for people to stay nurses!
I've been a nurse for 13 years and I've had enough. No real pay rise for the past 7 or 8 years, with the current rate of inflation my wages are worth less, I'm not paid enough to deal with what I deal with every day.
I have an exit strategy and a plan to leave - I'm re training as a software engineer!

HappilyHadesBound · 04/09/2022 18:12

Student nurses get a lot more financial support than student social workers do, many of the student nurses I know are better off than they've ever been financially, whilst social work students aren't getting any support at all after fees have been paid.

honkeytonkwoman38 · 04/09/2022 18:13

I currently run nursing programmes and I would say the main issue is placement capacity.

EmmaH2022 · 04/09/2022 18:14

Cornish "Another friend is in her 3rd year of student nursing and it's been brutal. Her experience at university has been dreadful."

why is that please?

PuttingDownRoots · 04/09/2022 18:14

For maths with mature students, wouldn't a functional skills test as part of the application process be more informative than an exam done 10-20+ years before? Obviously they need Maths skills, but education is something that happens over life, not just at school

VirginiaWool · 04/09/2022 18:16

No real pay rise for the past 7 or 8 years, with the current rate of inflation my wages are worth less

I hear you but trust me it's the same across the board. You think people in the private sector working at or below the wage level you do have had meaningful pay rises during the past fifteen years? They haven't. Software development is maybe a good shout but you might have missed the boat because lots of other people are trying to get into it; everywhere else is stagnant.

Bodice · 04/09/2022 18:17

They would rather ship in nurses/ healthcare staff from other countries Than pay a wage that is relevant to cost of living/ level of education/training.

Fififelix · 04/09/2022 18:17

It's the worst course ever with little support from uni. The new 2018 standards mean your placements aren't fit for purpose. You have a huge list of competencies to meet and no opportunity to do them then uni says it's your responsibility. I spend half the time worrying how to get them ticked off rather than concentrating on the job at hand. 2300 hours of placement OT is only 1000. If I could go back I would do OT. It's been a really hard slog for not a good paying role.

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