Aibu to think the nurse crisis could be solved if they had an incentive for people to become nurses

[Starsinyoureyes13]

A student nurse doesn't get paid to study and train on the wards. 37.5 hours and due to lack of nurses they are working alongside nurses wouldn't it be better to pay the trainee nurses and give nurses a payrise rather than NHS squandering money on £60 pound an hour agency staff?

HCAS are terribly underpaid and have been screwed over for years. 100 percent agree with your comment. They get a little over 11 maybe 12 pounds an hour to do the jobs that was once only performed by trained nurses. It's scandalous!

Nurses haven't always had all these degrees though have they? And it worked perfectly well before!

The debate over whether nursing should or shouldn't need a degree is irrelevant. It's not the need for the degree that causing the burn out or the stress levels or the long hours or the poor pay. It's the conditions - as has been said a billion times - recruitment is NOT an issue. Retention is.

(As an aside I feel making the profession degree level, like teaching, is a good thing. It gives it status and respect and professionalism, which were there to an extent back in the day, but not as much - there are far more career opportunities for in nursing than there ever were. Removing degree status now would be dreadful.)

I actually did a service improvement project on retaining staff. Most staff are female many have caring responsibilities. A lot of people I know leave permanent posts and go to bank/agency because of caring responsibilities. They need flexible hours which isn't doable in permanent ward roles.

Cabsnotlint. What nurses are expected to do today is nothing like what they were expected to do 30 years ago - do you know what the job involves?

We were talking about this at work the other day. Several lab analysts said they’d love to retrain as either nurses, physios, or radiographers. They’d earn much more money and have better benefits. But none can afford to take a break from work to train, so unfortunately it’s a non-starter.

The health secretary and government know full well how to solve these problems, they have access to the best expert advice. They DON’T want to solve the problems because the operating model doesn’t suit their conservative agenda. They want the NHS to be unfit for purpose so they can introduce an American style model so they can make vast sums of money.

I think this proves you know very little about modern nursing.

The NHS is short of a whole range of healthcare professionals and the UK just simply has not enough young people to fill these roles and all the other sectors that haven't enough workers, regardless of pay or incentives to train.

Brexit fucked the UK.

Don't forget... they're trying to make the NHS fail.

Absolutely this.

£60 per hour for an agency nurse? The most I've been paid by an agency is £40 per hour.

I'm a bank HCA while I'm a student nurse In LD/MH and I think I get 10.80 weekdays to restrain people and get attacked.

What @MatildaTheCat said. I work in a role supporting student nurses and we struggle to get them enough placement hours to meet requirements. training more is not the answer.

Qualified nurses are leaving in droves and European nurses are no longer coming to the U.K. in big numbers. The wards are a nightmare- too many people living too long (sorry if that sounds harsh) and no residential or nursing home places. Sick people on the general wards that would have been high dependency/ICU a decade ago.

Scottish students get a bursary of 10k and fees paid. They can get more if they have kids etc.they also work as health care support workers an can end up earning more than a newly qualified band 5 nurse.

I honestly just think the NHS is no longer fit for purpose - I don’t know how to fix it but it’s only a matter of time before many more of us are going private.

It’s the same for the Allied Health Professions. I recently completed Return to Practice as an OT after a 10 year gap. I left again after 6 months and returned to project management 😢 There was a total lack of preceptorship, the management was shit, every time I asked a question they seemed to get angry at me, it was awful. I’d cry in the toilets and it was taking over my life at home. I felt like I couldn’t do anything right. I’ll never go back and, actually, I’ve just had a promotion so I’m actually doing something right. Those 6 months traumatised me.

Its like teaching, they keep putting money into training new teachers but it’s retention that’s the biggest problem. They just don’t want to look at it or they just don’t care why there are so many of us leaving or thinking about leaving.

Erm, nurses don’t just “read a label” and give a dose, Jesus fucking Wept.

We haven’t had a shortage of students but we have had to turn some students away because we having had enough staff to ensure that they get the most out of their placement.

I’ve declined two students recently because I wasn’t mentally able to mentor anyone. I would have put them off for life. I was able to do my job but not able to manage any extra stress. I did end up being signed off with stress (far later than I should have done because I felt guilty about leaving an already overstretched team).

It’s a sinking ship and it’s becoming harder to stay.

There are different routes into nurse training these days a friend of mine completed the two year nursing associate course she was paid £17,000 / year and didn't have too pay tuition fees she's currently doing a top up course and will become a registered nurse next year for the first 12 months she got a bursary and for the last six months she's paid minimum wage she hasent had to pay tuition fees she will qualify as a band five in the new year.

@Patienceisntvirtuous ‘know how to read a label’?

I can cook a great paella. It doesn’t make me a chef.

Surely something can be done about the cost of agency nurses?
If they stopped paying out silly money for that and paid nurses a decent wage maybe they would stop leaving?

AFAIK attracting students is not the problem, it is retaining staff.
I did an Access to Nursing course (most went into adult nursing, but others went into mental health, midwifery, childrens, and ODP). Of the people I kept in touch with, not many are nurses anymore or even working for the NHS.
I went into ODP, and less than half that I stayed in contact with are ODPs now. Several burnt out. Some can no longer work at all.

During my training, the course was paid for and there was a bursary. That should never had stopped IMO.

But the real issue is the workplace long after you have qualified.

13 years as a nurse almost killed me, like very nearly. I had a hell of a lot of experience in that time and still held a ridiculous amount of compassion and love for my patients. However, the way we get treated, especially if you don't toe the corporate line or dare speak out about whitewash investigations, strips so much out of a person.

I gave so much blood, sweat and tears (I gave too much tbf, as do so many others) and was treated like I was nothing, purely a number, replaceable (well more so back then, not so much now with the wider staffing issues).

If they could show just an ounce of the care and compassion that the majority of nurses do, they wouldn't have ended up I'm this shit show to start with

Well there will be qualified nurses who haven't got maths gcse ,I did my training in the 90,s under project 2000 the entry requirements were five gcse,s at grade c or above including English and Maths or a science I failed maths but had chemistry and biology Gcse so got in, obviously thr training requirements have changed but there will be many nurses still working that don't have maths .

Nope there's not enough nurses let alone permanent nurses and wards need to be staffed.

They should also stop nurses form having to pay to keep their registration.

To work for the agency I work for, you actually have to currently work for the NHS. It's a specialised role and they need you to be up to date with training etc.