To be actually really worried about you? NHS related

[Itsonthestairs]

As a highly skilled NHS nurse of 15 years I had to leave my job due to the stress and not being able to provide the care I wanted to, I was burnt out following covid (my mum died), I have definaly save a fair few lifes in my clinical time, I loved my job and I was good at it (emergency department background). Reading the posts on MN has really upset me recently, the disrespect, dislike and darn right hatred for healthcare professionals really worries me. My friends are on their knees and this abuse doesn't help, people are getting crap care because there is no staff and this awful attitude is just adding fuel to the fire. I'm really worried about you, me and our families future healthcare.

@Topgub you’re being disingenuous, I’m referring to the nursing degree. The change in path lead to a lot of people for many reasons not being able to enter the profession at qualified nurse status

it was shortly after that many trusts started heavily recruiting overseas . Some of the best nurses I ever worked with would never have been able to gain a place to train at degree level and those are the kind of people the nhs needs in abundance

Two sides to my experience. In 1987 I had a hysterectomy in Brighton General Hospital, and was very unwell afterwards. There were two people who showed kindness to me. The tea lady, who found me crying behind a curtain in the bathroom, took me back to my bed, made me a cup of tea and gave me a hug. And a wonderful male charge nurse, who was looking after three wards overnight, but took the time to help me walk to the toilet, then remade my bed, dissolved painkillers so I could take them as soon as I got back to bed, then brought me tea and biscuits. I will never forget the kindness of these two people. I was lucky enough to be able to thank the nurse 20 years later, when my friend started her nursing training and he was her tutor. He was amazed that a patient still remembered him, and that what he considered to be him just doing his job had such an impact.
Now my experience is through my sick husband, and I have nothing but praise for the hospital staff, from Consultants to cleaning staff and porters. The nurses take time to check that I'm OK as well. I've witnessed frankly scary behaviour from members of the public. The fact that hospitals need to employ security staff is, frankly, disgraceful. Thank you all you hospital staff for all that you do.

I had an exemplary experience with the NHS recently.

Developed depression. After a year of battling it in denial I saw my GP who prescribed antidepressants and told me to self refer to IAPT. Referred myself over the phone, started therapy within two months (which isn't quick I know but I was expecting a year plus). Had twenty hour-long sessions with the most incredible therapist who really knew their stuff and was so compassionate and empathetic. Learned so much about how to manage depression (using CBT) and finished the course with so many new skills to use. Proud to say I haven't had a significant relapse since though I'm still on the tablets and plan to be for the foreseeable.

I don't think I'd have got better care private tbh, other than being seen quicker, they were so organised and proactive, it really blew my mind as you hear so much bad stuff about the NHS and mental healthcare being nonexistent, sadly I imagine that's true in many places but also in areas like mine it must put people off seeking help when it is actually there and available. People are so quick to complain at bad care but rarely share about excellent care so I like to highlight my own experience, there are some wonderful workers out there and I genuinely owe them my life. I sent in a formal 'compliments' letter to the service as I really believe in positive feedback when appropriate.

Some of the most disrespectful behaviour I have ever received in my entire life has come from nurses. NOT HCA's, but nurses and I had to keep schtum and suck it up, as I was vulnerable and prostrate at the time. I have met some hard-working and lovely ones, but those horrid women are the ones that stick in my memory. And they weren't all in one place: It wasn't a ward culture - it's an NHS culture.

I know someone who works in a care home. The way they treat and talk to the patients is truly disgusting.

The epithet of "angels" to NHS nurses and care home workers has given some of them the idea that they can be vile to their service users. We have to suck it up because it is a free service. We wouldn't accept that behaviour from police workers/teachers. They manage to work in intense and demanding roles (with similar pay) without insulting and mocking their service users.

...I didn't mean the person I know talks to the care home people in a vile way - it's the other staff.

As an ex-NHS staff member, I can only agree OP. It makes me so upset to see how little respect the public have for health workers and I am so glad I left it all behind.

@crabcakesalad this is in no way a dig at people who have been treated badly and are complaining about it - sadly every member of staff is not perfect and those who fall short need to be called out on their behaviour.

It is the awful attitudes people had during lockdowns that NHS staff had access to schooling (in our case DH had a wfh keyworker role which could not have been done with a 2 and 4 year old in the house but there was so much abuse that my children were contributing to spread, they should be at home with him etc etc. His salary was the one that paid the mortgage and bills at the time too but apparently we should have given that up), the horrible opinions towards staff being paid fairly or even just being treated with decency - why should we have access to a staff room to eat our lunch in peace or a clean toilet for staff?!

I couldn't be happier in the private sector but I have still been told by some posters I don't understand the implication to my pension 🙄

I will be steering my children as far away from healthcare as possible if they are settling in the UK

I was a ward clerk for 2 years and I have to say there are good people in NHS and also bad. I have seen people dedicated and hard working but workload is massive. I left and move to the office because of stress and responsibilities given to me were like band 4 not band 2.

@fannyfan excellent post. I have so so much respect for nurses like you, absolutely incredible

like any other professions, you get good and bad. Some nurses and doctors are great at the medical stuff but post bedside manner, some are kind but not so good at the diagnosing. Some are good all rounders! I have worked in A&E and there are several issues. It is a tough tough environment to spend every day off your working life. I am a senior therapist and I found some of the A,&E staff scary, but if I was actually dying, it was them I would want to be dealing with me as they were efficient and knowledgeable and un flappable. You do not go to A&E for TLC, it is for life saving emergencies.
The problem is now that with a lack of social care available in the community, or hospital wards are chocabloc full of patients who do not need to be in hospital but have no where to go. Many of our patients need minimal help once a day to help with morning wash/ dress routine and they will wait weeks in hospital to get that. If you suggest to them or family that they try and find a solution themselves, people are horrified as they have heard they can get 6 weeks free first. People actually choose to spend an extra month or so in hospital rather than pay for a visit or family help for 45 minutes a day.
This had a knock on effect on A&E whose limited cubicles will be occupied by poorly people waiting to go to a ward. These people cannot be moved back to waiting room and no one can be treated outside of a cubicle as privacy needed. ( I know locally to me they have made makeshift cubicles in the corridors but that is great from ideal/
This has a further knock on effect that ambulances cannot offload their patients,as nowhere for them so the ambulances stack up outside and then those making 999 calls cannot be responded to.
It is not a lack of hospital beds, it is all a lack of community resources coupled with a society who wants everything for free and is no longer willing or able to provide care for elderly relatives. It is very sad but I don't know the answer really.
A&E depts are designed for patients to be seen quickly and sent home or moved to a ward. People should be there for a couple of hours maximum and moved on. They are not set up with regular rounds to feed and drink and toilet people and this is often missed. I used to often be getting drinks and sandwiches to patients and helping them to the toilet and used to be shocked that no one else had noted, but staff were usually flat out and as a therapist, seeing how they managed with toileting and getting out of bed etc was part of my assessment anyway.
The answers to this mainly lie in the community and with us as humans, being slightly more willing to care for our families and or release their money to pay for the care they need rather than thinking the state should resource everything. And yes, I am aware that some families cannot afford that and that some people do not have family who can care for them but the stories I could tell!!

For those advocating privatisation, what do you think will be achieved? Profit will be at the forefront of shareholder's minds, not the quality of your care. When you have no alternative but they're still making profits, why do you think they'll be interested in the quality of care?

My experience of maternity services was very good (ante natal and actual birth but the post-natal care was very poor). My DS was diagnosed with a very rare and serious heart condition and given immediate life-saving treatment. He was lucky to be diagnosed as it is hard to pick up.

But I was in hospital a couple of years ago and had a horrible time. The nurses were uncaring and impolite and I needed to ask them for help because they were not checking my stats on a regular basis (I had a very high temperature for a prolonged period and needed anti-sickness medication and fluids which they kept forgetting to give to me).

There are good and bad people within the NHS but I don't think private healthcare is going to change things.

@Tomnooktoldmeto

Why are you singling out nurses?

'The change to the degree path' occurred nearly 20 years ago. For good reason.

20 years is a long time in health care. Practice has changed so much.

As I said, no one ever suggests we should fix the AHP or medical recruitment crisis by making the course easier.

Because its a stupid, nonsensical idea.

We fix the recruitment crisis by fixing working conditions and improving pay.

Not by dumbing down the required skills.

I've been registered at the same GPs surgery for 42 years. To begin with had a named doctor who I usually saw, lovely man, knew his patients well. Remember his pride when practice moved to new facilities, with a physio department. Second practice also moved from a mobile structure to a brick building. It was his practice. He worked well into his 70s before retiring. Had option of seeing a different Dr if unavailable, never had issues with appointments. The practice had 2 surgeries and 3 salaried doctors.
It was then combined with a large third practice. At one point the practice partner was the only salaried Dr. There are now just 2, both partners, with far more patients. 3 locums. 4 nurse practitioners, not paid enough IMHO for what they do.
This isn't due to lack of caring on part GPs still willing to be partners. It's money and a very different job description than 40 years ago. GPs now have far more responsibilities re managing budgets, never enough. Punitive inspections and scapegoating.
One GPs surgery near me closed for a day due to lack of GPs.
So not surprising that A and E are under pressure.

This is my experience of nursing too

Why work 3 x 12 hour shifts to make up the hours?

Most of us do our 39 hours spread out over five days. That way we don't get tired and make mistakes. We're not vile to people, using the excuse that "I'm working a 12 hour shift (therefore I'm an angel)"

@CinnamonJellyBeans

Who is vile?

12.5 hour shifts aren't a choice.

Thats the rota pattern.

You need 12 hours between the end of 1 shift and the start of the next 1. EWTD.

Most people don't do their 39 hours over night or at weekends either.

@CinnamonJellyBeans can't speak for pp but we don't have a choice on my ward.you need special permission from occy health to do 5 days in my trust

@CinnamonJellyBeans did you finish your post? It doesnt make any sense

@Topgub totally agree these posts are ridiculous really

3 x 12 hours may well be the shift rota and you may well have to get special permission to work an unprecedented five days a week. However, it is not a productive rota. For such intense, draining and precise work, nurses need adequate rest and respite.

Working the 39 hours over five days would limit exhaustion on the shift, therefore leading to increased productivity and well-being for nurses and their patients. It works well for the rest of us. I don't come home exhausted and tearful from my job and I am polite and extremely cheerful. I don't take time off sick. I enjoy going to work, because I have paced myself adequately and I am not vile to people because I am tired or work hard. I am just consistently nice and productive. So are my colleagues.

@CinnamonJellyBeans I'll bite.

If we barely have the staff to staff the 12 hour shifts. Who is going to come in and take over from me if I leave after 7.5 hours? Do I just go home and leave my patients to sort out their own chemo?

The rota is the rota. I don't know any ward that will allow everyone to do 7.5 hours. You don't get continuity of care with that. Id spend half my time handing over.

Spoken truly like someone who hasn’t a clue about healthcare 🤦🏽‍♀️😂

What is this job in which everyone is polite and cheerful, please tell?

You don't have a clue.

@CinnamonJellyBeans

I'm not vile to people.

I dont come home tearful every shift. In 22 years I think its happened twice. I dont take time off sick.

Seeing as you think you have all the answers, how would you staff the rota?

You need nurses 24/7 and 12 hours between shifts.

And each nurse has a different contract. Some 23 hours. Some 28 hours. Some 34. Some 37.5

Some cant do nights. Some need more than 24 hours between each shift. Some can only do set shifts.

Do my rota please.

Oh abd you also need to think about skill mix so meed a mix of senior and junior staff every shift.

Plus a nurse in charge each shift.

I've decided I'm going to do full time agency/bank nursing. Nursing has become toxic , patient and families expect instant fixes. Staffing is a constant issue , wards have become a toxic throw each other under the bus mentality.

I want to do my job for fair pay without the politics so it's agency for me.