To be actually really worried about you? NHS related

[Itsonthestairs]

As a highly skilled NHS nurse of 15 years I had to leave my job due to the stress and not being able to provide the care I wanted to, I was burnt out following covid (my mum died), I have definaly save a fair few lifes in my clinical time, I loved my job and I was good at it (emergency department background). Reading the posts on MN has really upset me recently, the disrespect, dislike and darn right hatred for healthcare professionals really worries me. My friends are on their knees and this abuse doesn't help, people are getting crap care because there is no staff and this awful attitude is just adding fuel to the fire. I'm really worried about you, me and our families future healthcare.

When there are grave shortages of both doctors and nurses, care is always going to suffer.

NHS staff shortages

The pressure on the staff is immense and it's no wonder that sometimes they're not as polite or tolerant as they might be. They're struggling to do a decent job with insufficient staff, often knackered equipment, increasingly dilapidated buildings and members of the public who can be incredibly rude and, sometimes, ludicrously demanding.

@Topgub Tescos not having the right flavour of breaded chicken is ‘an inconvenience’. Repeatedly being sent between services and thus having a wall put up in front of care you are told you need at the place you’ve been sent to receive it is not ‘an inconvenience’ it’s downright poor treatment and potentially dangerous. You’d think by the second time you’d gone back maybe the two services could ring each other and thrash it out, and direct the patient to an agreed service, not just one say ‘go to this place’ and one say ‘nope, go back to the first place’ ad Infinitum. This has been going on for me for over a fortnight now, and I have managed to not get abusive at all but I am getting to the end of my tether and there does not seem to be a resolution. If I’d come to your service, how would you handle it. Because if you would just shrug your shoulders at me like the staff I’ve dealt with them sorry but that is not good service.

As I have said, I do not condone abuse at all, and I have not been abusive to staff. What I said is I can see how people who are scared, desperate and in pain will not react as per an average human being in those situations. It’s the same way I don’t condone GBH but I’d fully understand why someone might twat a burglar in their bedroom at night round the head with a table lamp when they felt scared, threatened and had had their home violated. That’s an understanding of how others might react to a situation, it’s not encouraging it or thinking it’s OK

@dockspider the local NHS is over-stretched but absolutely bl**dy marvellous. Cornwall has fewer problems attracting teachers and HCPs than lots of places. It's a double-edged sword though: public sector employees are relatively well-paid in comparison to most local jobs, because it's a national payscale -- even though it's an expensive property market.

However, we're not staying here forever as we have itchy feet and if I never see the summer M5 again, I'd whoop. I'd just like to take my house and hospital with me.

@lampygirl

I cant comment because I dont know the details.

Abuse, verbal or other wise, is never justified.

Regardless of what abusive people tell themselves.

Staff in the nhs often put up with far more than they should because they minimise and make allowances for the awful circumstances people find themselves in.

That doesn't make it ok.

A small charge? For everyone of any age?
Would children, those on benefits, pensioners pay??
Or just the same poor sods in the middle?

Nuance is lost on many.

The NHS definitely needs to invest in conflict resolution training for its nurses. Witnessed so many instances where a confused, upset patient getting a little bit irritated is met with escalation by a nurse. Raised voice, getting louder, increasing the tension, starting to tell the patient (who isn't shouting or being aggressive) not to get aggressive. I've experienced it myself (over the phone, I politely challenged their assessment of something and was told that if I raised my voice they'd end the call... I hadn't, and they did). Some patients go in and act like dicks to innocent nurses but sadly some go in and are perfectly polite and civil, just experiencing normal human emotions, and are then escalated by nurses who completely abuse their power. In healthcare you don't tolerate abuse but you do sometimes expect and understand that someone who's just lost their spouse or whose been given a terminal diagnosis or who has witnessed a traumatic accident might be a bit shirty or prickly and you need to be trained to manage that compassionately instead of just whack them over the head and then shout at them. I understand logically that some cases are compassion fatigue and some are just people who should have never been accepted into a caring profession but it doesn't make it right.

I really do mean this kindly as I am a massive fan of the NHS (originally from the USA and have lived in other countries as well so I have experienced a few systems). However:

We see posts here ALL THE TIME from NHS nurses and other staff (but often seems to be nursing?) about how bad the bullying behaviour is and how hard it is to work in some wards because of the behaviour of other staff towards each other.

Well, how do you think those bullies are treating their patients? And why on earth should we not complain about it?

@cptartapp
Most co-pay mutualised insurance models incorporate an element of upfront payment, which is refunded via the social insurer (or state) up to c80%. In France, you pay the initial consultation fee and reclaim it or most of it.

Disabled people, children, and those receiving only basic state pension/benefits are covered by the state. If you have another pension from work, then you'd be expected to enrol with a mutual insurance company who are not permitted to cherry pick customers on the basis of age, or pre-existing conditions; customers can shop around for a package of benefits appropriate for them. So everyone has routine health and emergency care but at 66, I wouldn't pick maternity cover or fertility treatment, preferring the options like eye or hearing care. Some German health packages offer spa/convalescent after illness.

If you work, you and your employer both contribute and as there's no opt out, the costs are kept fairly moderate. And because everyone contributes, there's a bit more understanding of what care really costs. Clinicians and labs deal with customers direct, so you drop your urine sample off wherever is easiest for you, as you decide between the pharmacist near home or close to work.

And well-to-do retirees keep on paying their mutuels.

What utter victim-blaming nonsense. You're basically saying it's all right to be abusive if the CS falls below a certain level, which for some people means not getting what they want, no matter how unreasonable their expectations are. I've received my fair share of substandard and even appalling customer service over the years yet I have never resorted to abusing the staff. It has nothing to do with the CS and everything to do with the abusive customers.

The rota is the rota. I don't know any ward that will allow everyone to do 7.5 hours. You don't get continuity of care with that. Id spend half my time handing over.

That was all that was offered when I started nursing, you did earlys/lates/nights. The day shifts were 7.5 hours and you handed over from the early to the late, as you do now from the day to the night, so you only handed over once. It also meant that for a short while there were a lot more staff on the ward, so the early staff could crack on with IV's whilst the lates went round and did obs, checked everyone etc.
Continuity of care was there, because you were there with the patients 5 days a week.
Now most staff in the hospital work long shifts, which is great from a work life balance perspective and I can completely understand why a lot of people prefer those shifts.

Basically if you do long shifts, imagine that for 3 hours a day you get double the amount of nursing staff and what that would mean to your work load and level of patient care, that was what the olden days looked like.
Imagine if Trusts could afford to pay additional nurses to do short shifts, so 10-4 or 12-6 and the impact of that on patient care ? So you have a core staff doing long days and then additional staff doing shorter shifts which fit in with normal childcare providers.
Everyone gets their unpaid breaks, everyone gets the care they need and no-one is burnt out.

Birma - sounds perfect. Also time for managers to ensure training is up to date (not just the basics either), staff are supported, issues are investigated fully, improvements implemented and embedded in ward culture.

But some nurses and medical professionals are neglectful, uncaring and down right nevligent. I've had my health and thus life destroyed by our wonderful NHS. It can go and fuck itself.

@StridTheKiller im sorry to say I’m with u. The maternity department were awful when I was there. As I said further up the thread they are a huge reason why I only had one child.
One if the specialist I spoke to for help after told me to be grateful I don’t have cancer. My doctor was horrified at that as there was something they could. I never went back.

I spent years trying to fix myself and failing as ever person I met was either rude or wouldn’t help me even though I know they could and others have.

I currently has a huge amount of problems with intolerance to foods to the point where I have barely anything left to eat. And I’m told by the doctors to just get on with it and be grateful I have something when asked if I could see a dietitian.

My Nan was left to her own devices while she in there four seven weeks. She is blind but no one helped her. To the point that she said she would rather die than go back in.

Im sure there are good nhs people but I have yet to actually meet one. Or one that has helped me on the slightest. I have got more helps from Facebook groups than anyone at my hospital.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-62757787

OP, did you want sympathy? Won't get it from me. Crap crap service from the NHS for me and my children and unfortunately you can't really go private for emergencies (I go private 90% of the time, I have good insurance and sometimes I self pay)

Honestly I don't like the Tories but I can't wait for the day the NHS is fully privatised so nurses and doctors (especially GPs, my dream is to see them actually doing some work, I know I must be delusional) actually need to work - you know, many of us have to put money aside for our pensions, we don't get final salary or anything like that

So if you are "burnt out" I hope you don't need a job in the private sector as you will learn the meaning of the word "work". So nope, absolutely no sympathy from me

@forgotoldusername the level of vitriol in your post is disgusting.

Drs and nurses already know the meaning of a hard days work ffs.

@TheInkBlackHeart the NHS has f...d up quite a few times with me and my children. Unfortunately suing them is very difficult but I'll try. I work bloody hard and my "customers" get the best service from me without any complaint.

Instead here we need to think of NHS workers as some kind of demigods - who spend their time moaning and not actually doing the job they are paid for. Just get on with your job please rather than come on mumsnet and complain

@forgotoldusername yeah go for it, sue them. I hope it costs you an absolute fortune

@TheInkBlackHeart zero thanks to no win no fee. But yes I've tried a couple of times (all for legitimate reasons) and it's not easy.

I got a small payout once (no I'm not a serial suer but they have messed up a few times)

As I said, I go private 90% of the time so my encounters with the NHS are limited. I absolutely think it should be privatised but still accessible to all

I'm an occupational therapist in the NHS, but I too am HORRIFIED by the 'care' so many of my colleagues (don't) provide and the general NHS systems/management.

The clapping and the fact that NHS workers think that just by stating 'I'm an NHS worker so you must worship me' doesn't help. Believe me when I say it has gone to SO many of my colleague's heads. We should not be immune to reproach.

I totally despair at the system.

I wish nurses had gone on strike 20 years ago and got decent salaries and conditions but no they wanted 'to put the patients first' well that totally backfired and made the job more of a calling than a serious career - you reap what you sow.

@nellytheelephant1980 i was an occupational therapist, I worked for the NHS for 21 years and was a band 7 community lead. The management structure was totally unsupportive and unrealistic on the service that could be delivered by a steadily reduced workforce. The difference from when I qualified in the quality of care was shocking. Patients were seen as numbers to be processed in a set number of days and discharged come hell or high water. The hours wasted reporting on delays to transfer of care was ludicrous and took away from clinical hours. The post I was in went from one service area to responsibility for an entire county for inpatient and community plus peripatetic management to two services hosted in social services.

By the end I hated it, I was completely burned out and became physically unwell which was totally unsupported by management who took the opportunity to manage me out and make a cost saving. I sometimes wake up in a cold sweat dreaming I still work there. I’m now in education and far far happier.

www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2022/sep/03/13-year-old-daughter-dead-in-five-weeks-hospital-mistakes

This article struck me as very relevant to lots of what is discussed on this thread. I think what the writer says is very wise - let’s support the nhs but let’s not accept poor care is acceptable.