To be actually really worried about you? NHS related

[Itsonthestairs]

As a highly skilled NHS nurse of 15 years I had to leave my job due to the stress and not being able to provide the care I wanted to, I was burnt out following covid (my mum died), I have definaly save a fair few lifes in my clinical time, I loved my job and I was good at it (emergency department background). Reading the posts on MN has really upset me recently, the disrespect, dislike and darn right hatred for healthcare professionals really worries me. My friends are on their knees and this abuse doesn't help, people are getting crap care because there is no staff and this awful attitude is just adding fuel to the fire. I'm really worried about you, me and our families future healthcare.

@MissHavershamReturns that's a shocking article and has brought back lots of memories for me when DS was born and became ill within a few hours of his birth. He was OK in the end but I have never had satisfactory explanation of what the issue nor if it could have been a hospital-acquired infection (GP was the only one who dared mention this). Our care was shambolic - riddled with miscommunication, errors and borderline neglect. The excuse was being short-staffed. So many other women were also not given the care they needed by the time I came out of hospital I thought I'd been on a tour of duty in a war zone.

The NHS is good, but could be better, and the tragic story above speaks volumes about complacency. I don't mind so much if the patient is elderly or in chronic poor health (although I know the relatives will be desolate at the loss) but for an injured healthy young person... words simply fail me.

But I do think the NHS needs reform, a bit more money too, but it needs critical friends much more. I think threads like this may be beginning to erode the NHS worship. What was possible in 1947 has been superseded by decades of science. Longevity is +20 years what it was in 1947. Old people no longer die of pneumonia; they die of dementia which is a disease of keeping bodies alive too long. The various versions of dementia are all versions of long and slow and miserable declines (for everyone involved) and very very expensive. My DMIL's care home (very pleasant and well run for the record) is only keeping a life present that has no value to its owner. Which costs £4265 per month (she self funds).

I don't know the answer, but I can state that this is not what DMIL wanted; she asked me to take her to Dignitas if she was diagnosed as seriously ill and I promised I would, but with dementia, she no longer has capacity to frame the request.

that article was so terrible and yet I can say I had a near miss with my daughter that smacks of the same issues.
17 year old put on an adult ward acute appendicitis left fir three days / highly emotive reasons given fir the delay in surgery . Terrible car crashes etc
She deteriorated quite quickly day 3 ( appendix had ruptured) I insisted a doctor was called ) I'm a community nurse and went to my car and took her observations with my own equippment as the ward staff were horrendous.
Big fuss made - a disgruntled doctor came didn't even put her huge mulberry bag down to examine her kept it over her shoulder the whole time. i feel tearful writing this so god only knows how that poor poor family are feeling.
the doctor said it's fine even if it has ruptured she's ( my daughter) is on IV antibiotics. Which was rubbish as a treatment option and also inaccurate as she was on IV paracetamol for pain not on antibiotics.If o hadn't been a nurse I might have thought that's ok then. Such a hideous experience and I must say i felt so alone another patient s relatives accused me of attention seeking .
i often think that the brightest people are encouraged or aspire to do medicine but it's actually completely unsuited to their real skill set and oftentimes what they are dealing with is not that interesting to them.
Not sure what to say about the nursing staff good and bad i suppose i suppose the thing really comes down to poor service in a supermarket for example is highly unlikely to result in death or injury whereas in nursing it can.
is it true to say you get what you pay for?

@MissHavershamReturns I was about to come on and post the same link. So, absolutely heartbreaking and so very brave of her mum to go into such detail of every step that led to her daughter’s preventable death.

It really is so very relevant to this thread and the OP.

www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2022/sep/03/13-year-old-daughter-dead-in-five-weeks-hospital-mistakes

We had such trust, we feel such fools’: how shocking hospital mistakes led to our daughter’s death.

…

I am a fierce supporter of the principles of the NHS and realise how many excellent doctors are practising today. There’s no need for the usual political arguments: as the hospital in question has confirmed to me, what happened to Martha had nothing to do with insufficient resources or overstretched doctors and nurses; it had nothing to do with austerity or cuts, or a health service under strain.

…

Severe sepsis is most often dangerous when patients don’t make it to intensive care, where it can be treated with powerful drugs and frequent interventions. Martha could easily have gone to paediatric intensive care (PICU), which was just down the corridor and had beds free. But her consultants preferred not to involve PICU.

…

“I’m worried Martha is going to go into septic shock on a bank holiday weekend and none of you will be here.” The consultant ran her finger down a screen of numbers. “I’m not worried about sepsis,” she said. When I went back to the cubicle, Martha looked at me with narrowed eyes. “I heard you talking about septic shock.” “Don’t worry, my love,” I said. “I just need to make sure they’re thinking of everything.” The consultant’s parting words as she left were: “It’s just a normal infection.”

…

King’s later produced a Serious Incident report into why Martha died and its writer told me that she should, at this time, have been moved to PICU.

…

But Prof Checked Shirt, in charge that day, didn’t once consider such a move. Tellingly, the report revealed high-status consultants on Rays of Sunshine (“level sevens” in the ranking of seniority) had a dismissive attitude to less senior colleagues in PICU (“level fives”). This made them reluctant to do the right thing and involve intensive care: Martha died in part because of inflated egos.

…

When Prof Checked Shirt made his routine call from home that evening to the head of PICU, he painted only a partial picture of Martha’s condition. He did not mention her previous bleeding or the fact that the rash she had was new. He was relaying her details “for information only”; intensive care “categorically” should not pay Martha a bedside visit, he said: “no review was needed” and it would increase my anxiety. The hospital’s policy dictates that parents being worried is a reason to escalate; he decided the opposite.
The head of PICU could reply only that there was a bed available if needed. He was asked at the inquest whether, had he been given the full picture by Prof Checked Shirt, Martha would have been moved to intensive care. He answered: “Without a doubt, 100 per cent.”

…

Other consultants were also at fault: the hospital report concluded that on at least five occasions Martha’s care should have involved PICU. Yet at no stage did any doctor let me know that she was in real trouble. I was kept in the dark and condescended to. The focus on my – justified – anxiety reeks of misogyny.

Maybe you should read Martha Mill's story...

www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2022/sep/03/13-year-old-daughter-dead-in-five-weeks-hospital-mistakes

An absolutely chilling account of the NHS.

Sorry I see this case is already being discussed.

Bring on privatisation, it will encourage people to work for health care benefits, enable hard working people to acess medical treatment which seems to be impossible at the moment.

In a and e it is flooded with people with substance misuse, mental health (because the actual community service has been decimated) and people who do not need a and e but can't get an actual gp appointment.

The waiting times for ambulances are ridiculous and if there was a fee attached people would think twice and ascertain if they actually needed it.

Privatisation would benefit those who pay into the system

NO!!!!! That sounds horrific like the US system where people can't access medical care because of the i sane costs.

Germany is the system the UK should be copying- not the US!

insane*

NHS staff should be treat better. Doesn't even need more money, if they are respected like they should be they will do an amazing job. I had a midwife who was rubbish for first baby but compared to how awesome the second midwife was I can't praise her enough.and I don't even know her name to tell her! A good carer can mean more to a patient than they will ever know!

And what about those of us on low incomes? And those of us with pre existing medical conditions?

The various versions of dementia are all versions of long and slow and miserable declines (for everyone involved) and very very expensive.

Yes, unfortunately the vociferous demands of a minority of their relatives meant they are kept going to the bitter end.
The hooha over Covid and not protecting the care homes. If things had been allowed to run naturally a large number of care home patients would have died from it. Nature would have taken it's course - like it did in the wider world.

I am still testing to visit my relative in their care home.
I know how few and how seldom most residents are visited by relatives - so they are largely forgotten about. But when they don't acknowledge you and are past the ability to hold conversation of any sort it's not surprising.

You say that it will benefit those who work hard but thats not really true. It would inevitably be free to those on benefits, children and those on low incomes. So those that are not paying for it would still benefit anyway.

Do people think that private care has no malpractice or never has substandard care?

Or that European countries don't?

Because they do.

Look at the shit show that was Italy during covid.

Even with much more money, more beds, much more staff, they still don't get it right every time. They still have problems and they still struggle with elderly.

I'm amazed people genuinely seem to think privatisation is the answer.

And as per my previous post and going off on a completely different tangent that is one of the things that is wrong with this country. If you are on benefits basically you get everything free prescriptions, dental care, rent etc. Why would someone leave all that to go and earn not much more on minimum wage when they can basically get it all handed to them? I most certainly wouldn't! That leaves the tax payers of this country basically funding everything for everyone! Employers and the government need to make it worthwhile to go out to work even in the lower paid jobs!

@bloodyplanes: Let's be fair: If you took all your personal tax contributions that you have ever made and then deducted all the free things you and your family have had, you OWE the government money. You should look up the cost of giving birth, overnight stays, X-rays, blood tests, braces to the NHS. Also don't forget the free education we get and public services like the police.

We're ALL responsible for using the NHS wisely and this does NOT mean avoiding a trip to A and E when you are sick or gatekeeping NHS services against poor people, as you suggest.

It's about prevention, not cure. It's about taking care of our bodies and living a lifestyle that focusses on activities and actions that are better for mental health.

Five a day, avoid alcohol, do not smoke, take exercise, do not become overweight. If all of us did those things, instead of abusing our bodies and minds and letting the NHS fix us, then going back and doing it all again, the NHS might be able to afford to treat acute conditions, rather than the preventable chronic ones so many of us get free treatment for.

If we all got a cumulative virtual bill every time we used the NHS, we'd be a damn sight more grateful and some of us would be humbled at how much our government has spent keeping our bodies alive. You might be surprised at how much you personally owe and start being a bit more accountable, rather than begrudging the same privileges (one day I WILL type that word without the spellcheck nagging me) to other who are less fortunate.

I reckon I've had at least 100 grand of free and subsidised medical treatment.

@CinnamonJellyBeans

If we all did all of those things we would all live much longer.

And would all need more elderly care.

Its not as simple as stay healthy and you won't need the nhs

There's a reason 1 in 2 get cancer and it's not just poor diet

@Topgub : What a defeatist attitude.

I did not say stay healthy and you won't need the NHS. If we all take better care of our bodies, the NHS will have more staff, time, money and beds to treat acute conditions.

Yes: WE are all living longer, so we need to protect our bodies and brains as much as we can, so the final decades can be spent in better health, avoiding diabetes, dementia, mobility issues, liver problems and other diseases exacerbated by foolish lifestyle choices.

@CinnamonJellyBeans

Its not defeatist.

Its realistic.

Old age is a chronic condition in and of itself and one we cant beat with a healthy lifestyle unfortunately

I'll tell that to my 80 year old non-smoking, non-drinking, skinny outdoorsy mum running round like a flipping mountain goat.

Residual health doesn't happen by accident. She gave up smoking 20 years ago when she realised she wants to avoid an early death. We can all take steps to stay healthy in old age and avoid being a burden.

Some will be unlucky, like my dad, who never smoked and was lifelong teetotal and cycled every day. His last five years were spent being quite frail, due to bad knees and prostate cancer, but he still enjoyed life and took walks and had 75 years of great health. Lucky for him, he had a quick end, as he did the usual thing that old people do by breaking a bone and the hospital finished him off quickly with sepsis. But fair play to him, he did have 75 years of very good health.

Both my parents do/did actually have lifelong other health conditions that did cost the NHS money, but they both took care of their general heath and spend/spent most of their lives in fine fettle.

The fact your mum got got to 80 having smoked to 60 with no health impacts is a miracle and not a reason to be saying she's a health success story.

Outliers don't show the true picture.

I'm not saying we shouldn't be trying ti achieve a healthier lifestyle.

We should.

But we have to be realistic about the pros and cons of everything

Plus its well documented that individuals cost the nhs the most in their last year of life.

As we ramp up the costs of trying to fight the inevitable

80 years of saving the nhs money gone in year 88.

Five a day, avoid alcohol, do not smoke, take exercise, do not become overweight. If all of us did those things, instead of abusing our bodies and minds and letting the NHS fix us, then going back and doing it all again, the NHS might be able to afford to treat acute conditions, rather than the preventable chronic ones so many of us get free treatment for.

The idea that "acute" conditions are random and unavoidable and "chronic" conditions are caused by poor lifestyle is extremely ignorant and ableist.

Plenty of "acute" conditions such as stroke or heart attack can have lifestyle factors (if you smoke and are overweight, you are far more likely to have an acute medical emergency such as a stroke).

Plenty of chronic conditions are not preventable and not linked to lifestyle in any way. Society is very bigoted towards the chronically ill.

I have a chronic illness that I was born with - there is absolutely nothing that I can do in terms of lifestyle that will magically cure me.

Lucky for him, he had a quick end, as he did the usual thing that old people do by breaking a bone and the hospital finished him off quickly with sepsis.

What the actual fuck?