To think it’s unwise to lose the idea of God(s) in society?

[Digita]

To think it’s unwise to lose the idea of God(s) in society?

Whenever I hear people arguing why faith in any sort of higher being is 'stupid' or 'delusional' I wonder if they've thought through the wider implications of a godless society. It might not be all that it's cracked up to be... the idea of higher beings might be invented but invented for a reason too. Is there a need for a philosophical concept of something more for accountability, law and order?

“Society needs reasons for people to tell the truth even when it is to their disadvantage.” Why swear on a Bible? The Courts have kept swearing an oath on religious texts because there’s still a psychological, moral force behind it.

"Co-operation is a key component in human interaction and also, according to new research from the University of British Columbia, the spread of civilisation. Not because for any altruistic reason, though; instead it might be directly down to a fear of a vengeful god." Fear of punitive gods linked to rise of human civilisation’

‘A new study published in the journal, Nature, tests the theory that communities are fair and cooperate with outsiders because of the fear of divine retribution.’ ‘Moralistic gods, supernatural punishment and the expansion of human sociality’

Great, so the former Soviet Union under Stalin set an example in this. If you see the torture changers used by the former atheist state in East Berlin it will give you the idea. And dear old Pol Pot was exemplary in his atheist state. Amazing your ignorance of history btw.

So if I am on a jury, and the defendant swears on their holy text and proclaims innocence in fear of certain divine retribution, how can I as a mere mortal find them guilty? Would I be thwarting god(s)? Then why bother continuing the trial at all as punishment for the guilty is surely coming anyway?

This.

I was raised a Roman Catholic and while I still have faith in some form of higher power, after some of the horrors that have come to light over the past decades I will never step foot in a Catholic Church again.

These institutions had numerous opportunities to protect victimised children and they chose to ignore and put other children in harm’s way. And what they did to unmarried mothers is unspeakable. Plus some of the worst people I know are religious. I know lots of lovely religious people too, but there’s something particularly nasty about a person who uses their faith to justify hateful behaviour and opinions.

You don’t seem to understand that putting the defendant under oath makes them guilty of perjury which is a civil offence against the state

🙌🏼

Atheist here. I want a secular country, disestablishment of the CoE.

If a God works for you, that's fine. But I don't want your God, any God, having influence over our education, our politics and our way of life. We should be allowed to opt out.

North Korea?

Leave off with the North Korea, as if that proves your point. It doesn't.

There is a vast middle ground between religion and totalitarianism for crying out loud.

Oh the old ‘Tuquoque fallacy’ 🙄

By the way, Pol Pot was highly likely to have been a Buddhist.

North Korea

They can't just help theirselves to keep mentioning it. As if you can only have communism and a secular society.

Nope you can have a healthy secular society but you can tell the religious don't want it.

well the former Soviet Bloc or Communist China? Trying to get you in touch with reality

I haven't RTFT but the absolute incredulity I feel that this research is at the University of BC, a province where mass graves of murdered children are still bing exhumed at residential schools, RUN BY THE CHURCH, is immense. Mass murder of children, based on race, and they are saying that religion is somehow linked to morality.

The truth is any organised system designed by men for men (whether that's Nazis or Catholics) will result in a shit show, especially if it's built on submission and obedience.

@Malie

So what's your position on the Taliban?

No, since god(s) don't exist.

it is of course a regime built on repression.

Yes, as repressive as some of the 'godless' regimes you keep mentioning. But in this case built on a religious doctrine based around a commonly held vision of a God.

How does that square with the rest of your beliefs?

@Malie look up totalitarianism. You clearly don't know what it means.

So my point still stands.

And I don't need someone religious to put me in touch with "reality".

So religious doctrine is repression, so how would you tell or share the message of god/s without religious doctrine?

@Wallaw

Exactly, pointing to any specific regime and saying that's really bad, so whatever religion/ideology it belongs to is therefore bad is just a shit argument all round. Or more technically a hasty generalisation.

Stalin bad = atheism bad
Hitler bad = Christianity bad
Ferdinand and Isabella (Spanish inquisition) = Catholicism bad
Taliban = Islam bad

Whichever religion / ideology you find, you can get good and bad examples of all, so what does it prove, Diddly squat

@Malie

You are confusing communism with secular.

You do realize that some of the least religious country's aren't at this moment communist don't you. The Czech republic seems to be doing well for it's self.

Not at all. I am talking about societies where belief in God was illegal

The Czech Republic is not an atheist state to my knowledge.

@goherbie

How is it any more of a generalisation or shit argument than the original premise: loss of god in society = bad, when I could easily give you specifics in which god in society has not resulted in good?

Ah, yes, those societies where lack of belief in (a specified) God is illegal are so much better.

Go and live in one then