Energy don’t pay or what else

[jetadore]

So the “don’t pay” movement seems to be gaining some traction but so does the “just shut up and pay” movement telling us to stop being so naive and how there are ‘much better ways’ to tackle the issue? What are these ‘better ways’ then? Place my faith in the leadership and benevolence of Liz or Rishi?

I remember people refusing to pay (and rioting) over the poll tax, you hear about protest movements in other countries, what about the yellow vests for fucks sake. Here we’re too scared to do anything in case it affects our precious credit scores, make excuses not to demonstrate because we allowed the government to take away our right to protest.

What am I allowed to do then? Wait for people to start going broke or dying, and then tut over the newspaper headlines? Wait for the next election so we can vote in the same bunch of bastards, or Starmer’s diet bastards? Research and publish my proposal for a coherent, long term energy policy since nobody in government can be bothered? Campaign for world peace? Come up with patronising explanations for how the crisis is due to a complex and unfortunate coincidence of geo-political factors and the prevailing economic doctrine which is actually much better than the alternative when you think about it what are you a socialist or something? How long should I wait and see if things magically get better? Is ofgem going to wait to announce the price cap? No, they’re doing it next month. Just enough time to get onto my bank.

I’m fortunate that I could probably afford the projected (can’t wait for the big reveal, so exciting) increase with a bit of belt tightening. But I’m inclined to cancel my payments all the same, if it would put the shits up them. I don’t want to be all “I’m alright jack” while others struggle, nor do I want to be intimidated by the threat of ccj’s and conservative claptrap, so that the Tories and their mates can sit there laughing at us and blathering on about how profit isn’t a crime whilst we all meekly wring our hands and wait in the cold for the invisible hand of the market to come to our aid.

Just feel like is there something I can practically do to make a difference, now, or am I actually powerless?

PS I know there was a thread on this recently there probably have been others since I didn’t find any when I searched though.

Well there’s a mass protest already organised the one mentioned in the title. Apparently it’s not the ‘right’ sort of protest so I came on here asking for better alternatives which everyone’s singularly failed to do, just trotting out the same old excuses.

Also if “only a small percentage” didn’t pay the poll tax and that worked, it bodes well doesn’t it?

You said, All in the same predicament, to a lesser or greater degree. Partly depending on what their governements are doing about the similar situations.

Our government is doing nothing of significance. I’m asking what I can do to force them to do something. Still waiting for an answer (from anyone, not just you). Are people pleased by the current situation (judging by many on this thread, seems like yes), or is there anything I, we can do about it. Queue hundred posts reframing the problem in interesting and provocative ways, zero actual suggestions other than to not not pay under any circumstances and whatever you do don’t try to protest, good god no.

The credit score is a huge issue for anyone with a mortgage. The potential consequence is an inability to remortgage your property, being forced to remortgage at 'sub-prime' rates, and that compounded with base-rate hikes means huge rises in your mortgage bill. And you can't not pay the mortgage, or you will be homeless.

How about withholding Council Tax and using that to help fund energy cost?

Gov would find funds for essential services. CT is not a private/listed company.

You could assassinate Putin? That's direct action that would probably help the situation.

Maybe you could pay the sociopaths that have hijacked your solution focussef thread OP. Seems that their empathy ceiling is low enough for a bit of dictator death.

Poll tax isn't really comparable because it's a tax from the government not a payment for a product from a private company.

When companies like shell are making record profits then I do think we need to take action. No one should be making such a high profit at the cost of pushing people to and over the poverty line.

Chuck a brick 🙄

You’re only just deciding to protest now despite months of knowing this was coming?

And stop insulting other people because your really rather stupid ideas won’t work, which many already know.

Energy prices aren’t a tax! You can’t protest them in the same way. HTH

Well don’t pay then I don’t think people will care about it if it impacts you negatively. But if you think it’s a good way to go then go for it

Other than not paying (already explained how that won’t work)…what do you suggest?

I’m all ears.

Killing Putin and actually helping sort this war in Ukraine rather than being friendly bystanders would have been a better start.

And no, nobody wants war, but in many ways, this was is obviously not just Ukraines

People talk about the poll tax but those who refused to pay didn't get let off. They ended up with ccjs.
If enough people don't pay and enough people riot then yes, maybe the government will step in and subsidise those on low incomes but everyone who refuses to pay will pay in the end. And they'll pay more. Court costs, forced to have pre payment meters installed etc.

We need to make a lot of noise and also commit to voting in general elections! Voter apathy is the killer in this country. Governments know they can always count on low voter turnout.

Also, the government can't actually force international companies to reduce the price they sell the supply to our energy suppliers. You think shell or the rest of the cartel give a fuck which country buys their product? All governments can do is give low income families some extra money.

Things are going to be so tough. Very many of us are going to really struggle and we have to take our heads out of the sand about that.

SavoirFlair your name says it all really… can you go sit and read your vogue magazine while the grown ups discuss what we can collectively do to help everyone. The op acknowledged she was ok but more concerned about people who won’t be ok and what should be done. You clearly didn’t bother to properly read her post.

I said that was what the idea was behind the other part of the movement. I didn't say factual as I've not done huge amounts of research into. Just giving people the option of fully researching the general premise.

But interestingly we are wary of our usage anyway. Will be even more so this winter. The fixed quote we've been given, even when calculating on worst case forecast increases, is over double what our usage would be in the next year. I think people need to be at the very least conscious of fixed rates not necessarily being accurate, and if paying monthly for what you use is a better option then it should be considered.

I don't think it is right to not pay, at the end of the day it is like others have said, it would be like shoplifting - but equally money is better sat in our pockets than energy companies who are quite literally making record profits and making statements like they have too much money and they don't know what to do with it.

Go on OP. Cancel your DD and see what happens.

You realise even Martin Lewis says not to do this don’t you?

Funny/enraging to think that just a week ago Truss was bragging about getting rid of solar fields.

Exactly and why is France not having an energy crisis??

What other part of what movement?

So much cryptic stuff on here.

Go to independent persons who knows their onions and start there. Not paying bills and cancelling DDs (which often form a contract by default and may affect your rate) is not good advice without research.

👍🏻👍🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👊🏻

Other countries dont seem to have come up with much either.

They are.
It’s just not as bad and remember energy supply is largely nationalised, stamp/tax is collected differently and forms huge subsidies etc so they are paying more, albeit via a different route. Not as much as UK, it’s true.

Its all there for reading if you want to learn more.

Well Germany has installed thousands of wood burners into domestic premises this year in anticipation of a hard and told customer to try and use this method where they can.

So there’s something in it.

And please don’t tell people not to burn wood when the alternative may be to freeze to death.

Emissions, right now, mean fuck all when China and India keep doing what they’re doing. Greener is better, but being alive is better than dying from cold irrespective of the immediate impact on the environment.

Because Germany was anti nuclear and drunk on Russian gas, they are worst impacted by this as they have little alternative.

^*
Exactly and why is France not having an energy crisis??*^

Would people stop using France as an example? The freeze on gas price increases and cap on energy costs comes to an end at the end of the year. Then it will increase sharply. Macron has told the French people it's the end of abundance and there are tough times ahead. EDF is also suing the French government for £7bn, if they win, where do you think that money will come from?

If the government doesn’t intervene as the French have, vulnerable people will get sick or die from the cold and send the NHS into free fall this winter. Good luck getting an ambulance out when your parent has a heart attack. Small and medium businesses will collapse, creating mass bankruptcies and joblessness. People with no assets and no key meter will run up huge debts they cannot pay. We are in for the mother of all recessions without intervention. Mass action will happen regardless, and it may well be violent when enough people have nothing further to lose.

The OP is asking quite reasonably what we can do before it comes to this. I think a lot of people are like me, if there’s a general strike or huge protest, they will join in. I can afford my energy but will act in solidarity with those who cannot and those who will lose businesses or loved ones.