Energy don’t pay or what else

[jetadore]

So the “don’t pay” movement seems to be gaining some traction but so does the “just shut up and pay” movement telling us to stop being so naive and how there are ‘much better ways’ to tackle the issue? What are these ‘better ways’ then? Place my faith in the leadership and benevolence of Liz or Rishi?

I remember people refusing to pay (and rioting) over the poll tax, you hear about protest movements in other countries, what about the yellow vests for fucks sake. Here we’re too scared to do anything in case it affects our precious credit scores, make excuses not to demonstrate because we allowed the government to take away our right to protest.

What am I allowed to do then? Wait for people to start going broke or dying, and then tut over the newspaper headlines? Wait for the next election so we can vote in the same bunch of bastards, or Starmer’s diet bastards? Research and publish my proposal for a coherent, long term energy policy since nobody in government can be bothered? Campaign for world peace? Come up with patronising explanations for how the crisis is due to a complex and unfortunate coincidence of geo-political factors and the prevailing economic doctrine which is actually much better than the alternative when you think about it what are you a socialist or something? How long should I wait and see if things magically get better? Is ofgem going to wait to announce the price cap? No, they’re doing it next month. Just enough time to get onto my bank.

I’m fortunate that I could probably afford the projected (can’t wait for the big reveal, so exciting) increase with a bit of belt tightening. But I’m inclined to cancel my payments all the same, if it would put the shits up them. I don’t want to be all “I’m alright jack” while others struggle, nor do I want to be intimidated by the threat of ccj’s and conservative claptrap, so that the Tories and their mates can sit there laughing at us and blathering on about how profit isn’t a crime whilst we all meekly wring our hands and wait in the cold for the invisible hand of the market to come to our aid.

Just feel like is there something I can practically do to make a difference, now, or am I actually powerless?

PS I know there was a thread on this recently there probably have been others since I didn’t find any when I searched though.

Ah, you are one of them?

No, climate change is not BS,

So, other than complaining on the internet, what’s your plan?

Mine’s simple enough, I’ll pay the bill, but if I think it’s too much we’ll spend much of the winter in the home in France where very little heating is needed.

Oh I know it’s not that simple, and I will admit I don’t know all the companies which a currently drilling in the and and used RDS and Bp as proxies for this.

yes they would likely delist, but we could then sieve the assets. It’s no different to madder seizing the suez.

it’s not a palatable option at all, ut the issue lies with a lack of proper taxation, or public ownership of fields a poor financial management of the revenues, a lack of energy security to wrap around this.

Norway has statoil which is state owned and the Norwegian policy is to own 50% of all drilling liecenses.

You didn't answer the question though. Would you be willing to pay £20,000 for energy IF the energy companies demand that price? Would you think that's reasonable? There are lots of families with elderly realities and others with small children that can't afford extortionate pricing. Is it just too bad for them?

Why would the government possibly try to seize foreign companies just because you are annoyed at your energy bill?

More to the point, have you any idea how ridiculous that plan is? What exactly do you imagine would happen if we tried to “seize”
the assets of US and EU companies drilling hundreds or thousands of miles from the UK?

You need to stop having fantasies and start to work out how you plan to afford to heat your home.

*North sea and used RDS… And Nasser not madder

*relatives

I did answer the question, it’s up there, above your post.

And yes, why not? If I use £20,000 of energy of course I’ll pay for it, why wouldn’t I?

This isn't about 'me' or 'my family' this is about everyone. I am in a fortunate enough position that it won't be castrophic for us BUT that's beside the point. If you went to the shop and a pint of milk suddenly cost £50? Would you buy it? Oh course mot, because its ridiculous. The same thing here with energy

it's a form of protest.

One I froze my tarriff last year on a rate well below current rates, two I’m a very low usage household so heating my house will not be an issue and my bills are affordable for at least the next two years.

also I didn’t say let’s just seize them. You use the threat of nationalisation to try and leverage either windfall taxes, or better rates from companies which are extracting gas and oil in the North Sea under licenses issued by the uk government. I was responding to a PP who said they would delist if you wind fall taxed them. If they do at that point a government could size the assets

also as the PP meantioned RDs and BP have generally wound down in the North Sea.

www.theguardian.com/business/2021/jul/29/foreign-control-of-north-sea-oil-licences-threatens-uks-net-zero-goal

as such it seems a large portion are owned by equity funds and foreign countries including china. This is where the reference to Nasser and the Suez comes in

Exactly. If everyone did the same thing, what could they do? They'd have to be more reasonable

Then don’t use it.

You are making very hard work of a really simple situation here. How can you not understand?

OK so you think it's OK for anyone to charge any price they want without regulation?

The price issue though this time isn’t t energy retailers, it’s the production companies and demand being greater due to less supply, so the protest is targeting the wrong area.

Well yes, of course. If the UK valued the price that could be paid then no-one would sell us any gas at all.

Is there anyone among you lot with even the vaguest understanding of how energy markets work? Why would a company sell gas here for less than the wholesale price when Germany will pay more?

Martin Lewis said put in a letter of complaint, they can't cut you off or anything while your letter is being investigated, when you get a reply escalate your complaint to the next level & keep going until you reach the top where your next step is the energy watchdog. If enough people complain it will take them ages to deal with the complaints & hopefully something will have been sorted out by the government. You can also refuse to have your DD increased, if you are paying something they can't cut you off.

Because France has forced EDF to sell below market rate for energy for French consumers so it can be done

@PasTrop most people in the U.K. don’t have the luxury of going to their second home in France to avoid the price of gas and electricity this winter.

Poll Tax was completely different situation

there is nothing stopping you making a placard and protesting. starting a Facebook/Twitter/Instagram campaign and it’s your choice if your don’t want to pay to make a stand send as many letter/emails/tweets as you feel you need to

the I’m so concerned for those less fortunate hand wringing posts doesn’t achieve anything

as much as mn would love to believe the country shall go wild rioting most will just be trying their best to get by we are tired and worried and can’t be arsed with playing out the revolution that the left so desperately seems to want the wc class to do

Surely @PasTrop posts are some sort of satire!

I just saw under a Martin Lewis post on Twitter a woman shared a screenshot of the price estimated quoted by Scottish power for the year - it was over 11K!! So if things continue the way they are, we aren’t far off from seeing quotes like 20K unfortunately.

Also to people going on about less usage, because standing charges have increased as well, a lot of people making reductions in usage may only see a limited benefit in terms of the bill since they can’t reduce the standing charges cost.

Mine will double in the next few months.
It is awful what is going on here , but people won't just not pay their bills because of all manner of reasons. The energy companies will have to accept what people can pay I suppose.
I wish I had a second home to move to avoid a lot of this , Unfortunately I don't ! Along with millions of others.

Exactly! Seems here is a total lack of empathy for many thousands who are already living hand to mouth and literally can not afford these massive price hikes. There is no money in the pot !
I’m seriously worried about the impact this will have on those families already struggling with inflation .
Yes there will be some Government aid but it’ll only cover a proportion of the increased costs.

I’m relieved I do have savings to cover the costs so at least I won’t freeze , go hungry , risk losing my home , go into poverty, become ill; all of which will happen to many many families over the winter.

I don’t know what the answer is but this “I’m alright Jack “ response sickens me.

we are an island surrounded by water, why the hell don’t we have hydropower like New Zealand?

why aren’t all new houses built with solar panels?

why do we have so few wind farms?