To think db and his gf should put thier children above saving the planet???

[lillycat]

My db (32) has always been a bit of a drifter, he has never really held down a job or anything and travels a lot round the country. It was never really an issue for me, he is an adult and can do what he likes, but he fell out with our parents years ago over it. He has recently been trying to make things up with then and has been to visit, and brought his new gf who has two ds from two fathers. She is younger (24) and has a council flat but spends most of the time living in a van with her ds who are 5 and 3.
Her and db are now traveling around together and seem to be spanding most of their time on road protests (I didnt even know there were any anymore but they have found some) and things like that, and doing anti war and anti nuclear campaigning - db gets arrested every now and then which can't be good for young boys to see as an example imo.

Anyway me and my parents are a bit concerned about her ds - they don't go to school obviuosly but they dont get taught by their mum either it seems - the 5yo can't write his name even. The children are filthy as well, dressed in tatty old clothes all the time and have quite long hair which does look lovely but needs washing and brushing which doesn't happen really. Both db and gf have a dog so the children are sharing their beds in the van with two dogs. They are lovely children, really bright and sweet but they swear a lot which the mum doesn't seem to mind and they have no routines at all- they get taken to parties and kept up late. Thir mum still has a double buggy that they sleep in if they are out late. Also they are vegan and are both quite small, but they do get fed healthy food and she doesnt let them have sweets and fizzy pop. She seems to worry about strange things - I'd be more worried about my dc getting an education than being vegan iyswim?

Dh thinks its none of our business to say anyhting as the kids are obviously loved and looked after, just not to the same standards we keep . But I just cant help thinking that once you ahve kids its time to grow up and put them first?

If the kids are happy and loved then it is none of your business.

It is not the way you choose to bring up your kids, but they are not your kids.

I don't have a problem with anythinh you have mentioned. They will probably grow up open minded and free-thinking

Maybe they think you are bringing your dc up too conventionally? Either way, its down to different values. Leave them alone

TBH I agree with your DH it's none of your business - it's not as if they are even related to you. What are you going to do - shop her to social services?

Regarding the dog, hair-washing, late nights, routine etc, this is a perfectly valid lifestyle choice. It's not YOUR choice but it won't do the kids any harm. Plenty of children live like that and thrive - they may even grow up healthier and more rounded as a result.

As for the education thing, well they are only 5 and 3. Who cares if they can write their name or not? Plenty of children on the continent don't start school until 6 or even 7 and this is perfectly normal.

If they were 10 and still unable to write their name I'd say you have a case about that but the rest is not important.

I'd say if the children are loved and looked after then I'd agree with your DH, its not really your business. They just have a different way of life and different values to you. They might also be learning about standing up for what you believe in, consequences of people's actions, etc.

Your dh is right, it's none of your business. Clearly not your parenting style but then they aren't your kids.

She can't be doing such a bad job, given you say they are lovely children. (And children don't have to start school or HE until the term after their fifth birthday, IIRC.)

not your business

these children sound well loved, well cared for, just not in a nuclear family way.

someone has to protest against wars, too many roads etc.. so we should be thanking them really !!

if your brother has always been a drifter, he is lucky to have found someone to have a family with who feels the same and can enjoy their chosen lifestyle together

you would be doing a terrible disservice to your brother and his family by saying anything, as anything you do say would come across as disapproving and critical, even if you have the best intentions.

I can see why you're worrying, it's not the way I woudl do things, and I agree that being arrested isn't a good role model, however dirty children are only a problem IMO if it is a sign of neglect, which from what you're saying it isn't.

Do you have any idea when she is planning to send her eldest to school? That would be my qualm, not because it's something that's a problem really, but legally in this country they have to either go to school or be educated at home.

i think your brothers girlfriend sounds as if she is doing a marvelous job bringing up her kids.
routines etc are only important if they brign happiness andcontentment. whcih these children seem to have
they are getting an education. a marvelous one which invlovles the sort of stuff the government can only dreamof. if the eldest dc couldnt read and write at ten, i would be worried, but at five, yabu.
the dirtiness isnt particularly good, but its better than the moms who clean the bottomof kids shoes with antibacterial wipes and then wonder why there kids are so prone to allergic reactions.
a double buggy for a 3 and five year old sounds perfectly reasonable. mine are almost five and 6.5. i made the mistake of going shopping with them and wished i had mine still. so did they.
vegan kids tend to eat far far more healthily than meat eaters. less chance for junk food
instead of cricticising her, be proud of her.

Message withdrawn

maybe they're just trying to make sure there's a planet for their children to grow up in?

The children are loved and looked after - it's none of your business.

My children swear, probably don't get washed enough etc, and I'm sure some people judge me on it.

VS, I disagree about arrests being a cause for concern. Being arrested in itself means nothing, it's what you do to cause the arrest that is the problem. Wife-beating, drug dealing: yes, obviously a crap example. Standing up for something you are passionate about is a GREAT example for kids, IMO.

good luck to them. they sound like a nice family, even if they are vegan. baths are over-rated imo.

but it can be difficult sometimes to see past the obvious differences between your parenting and someone else's. I find myself doing it sometimes, but my thing is parents who send their 5 year olds to private schools without trying the local primary, not protesters/crusties; some other people have a thing about formal education too young - see the home ed threads for examples. nothing is black and white where raising children is concerned.

I think it's your business, and you have every right to be concerned - in general - about your grandchildren. In this case, though, it sounds as if the children are happy and loved, if a little frayed round the edges, so I don't think you need worry too much.

I think it sounds like they're having a fabulous upbringing.

There are plenty of mners who had an, ahem, avant garde childhood and have turned out almost normal.

Lots of countries don't impose school until after the age of five. And no one died from tangled hair.

Your db seems to have met his perfect woman.

It's lovely that you're concerned, but step back: they're loved, fed and healthy. Not much more matters right now.

Yep, YABU.

I am about to start living on the road with my dd (4) and I know many other people who do so with children in tow. Its the most fantastic life for children, they get experiences that most never have, and all the traveller kids I know are strong, healthy, and well rounded. They are often dirty but tbh, most children are kept faaaar too clean these days!

With regards to the education, there is no need for a 5yo to be able to write. I'd assume that she does plan on teaching them herself, and that she is aware of organisations such as Travellers School that will be able to provide advice and work schemes. You could mention it to her, but do it tactfully.

Children benefit IMO from seeing their parents stand up for what they feel is important - and there's not much thats more important than saving the planet, really.

Oh god help me - I only bath the DS's every other day - but tonight DS1 (7yrs old) is going to bed without a bath (various reasons I shan't go into right now....) it means he won't have a bath from Saturday night until Wednesday night..

As for hair brushing - ok they have very short hair........but I always forget to brush their hair before school.....and often forget to wipe their mouths/faces too after breakfast

FWIW, I have been arrested for protesting against environmental destruction and you know what?

I'm proud of it, and I hope that my dd will be too when she is older. Obviously I would not go out to get arrested when in charge of her, but in itself it is not a'bad example'.

Its certainly a better example than speeding, or fiddling tax returns, or all sorts of things that lots of people do.

It is none of your business.

As you said the children are obviously loved and looked after, so doesn't sound like they are putting other things before the boys. Lots of people think this is a perfectly acceptable way to bring up kids, it's just unconventional. They sound like they are getting a pretty rounded education too, experiencing all those different things. I bet they grow up to be free-thinking, which I'd rather my DS grew up with than being conventional.

I bet somebody, somewhere has died in a freak, tangled hair related incident. but there have probably been a lot of shampoo-related incidents too.

I agree with everything Stripeymama said too.

I spent a fair bit of my childhood on the road, squating, living in communes, travelling the world and not brushing my hair. Didn't do me any harm. My parents loved us, and gave us a fantastic education.

lol at SP

If there were other issues (such as drug or alcohol abuse by the parents, which can be an issue in new traveller communities) then you would have a reason to be concerned - but dirty clothes and a lack of routines isn't a problem.

I've been arrested for standing up for what I believe in and my kids think it's cool

Well I was prepared to be told IABU so fair enough. I can see they are loved and I suppose its just that I cant imagine doing anyhting like that with my 2yo - I feel that children need a stable home and a bit more security then their lifestyle offers. And warmth, and toys and books, but I take the point that they are not actully 'neglected' or anything.
I will see if I can slip that website into coversation when I get a chance, it looks interesting.
Their values are very different to mine and that isnt a bad thing, I know. It does seem slightly unfair, given that dh and I both work (I'm a CM) and we cant do that sort of thing, they dont really have a work ethic which seems really strange to me. She does spend time in her flat afaik, mainly in the winter - I just cant get my head round anyone choosing that life when they have a real home.
Think dh is a bit in a way - he always wanted to travel the world when he was younger!