To think db and his gf should put thier children above saving the planet???

[lillycat]

My db (32) has always been a bit of a drifter, he has never really held down a job or anything and travels a lot round the country. It was never really an issue for me, he is an adult and can do what he likes, but he fell out with our parents years ago over it. He has recently been trying to make things up with then and has been to visit, and brought his new gf who has two ds from two fathers. She is younger (24) and has a council flat but spends most of the time living in a van with her ds who are 5 and 3.
Her and db are now traveling around together and seem to be spanding most of their time on road protests (I didnt even know there were any anymore but they have found some) and things like that, and doing anti war and anti nuclear campaigning - db gets arrested every now and then which can't be good for young boys to see as an example imo.

Anyway me and my parents are a bit concerned about her ds - they don't go to school obviuosly but they dont get taught by their mum either it seems - the 5yo can't write his name even. The children are filthy as well, dressed in tatty old clothes all the time and have quite long hair which does look lovely but needs washing and brushing which doesn't happen really. Both db and gf have a dog so the children are sharing their beds in the van with two dogs. They are lovely children, really bright and sweet but they swear a lot which the mum doesn't seem to mind and they have no routines at all- they get taken to parties and kept up late. Thir mum still has a double buggy that they sleep in if they are out late. Also they are vegan and are both quite small, but they do get fed healthy food and she doesnt let them have sweets and fizzy pop. She seems to worry about strange things - I'd be more worried about my dc getting an education than being vegan iyswim?

Dh thinks its none of our business to say anyhting as the kids are obviously loved and looked after, just not to the same standards we keep . But I just cant help thinking that once you ahve kids its time to grow up and put them first?

tbh your op comes across less as concerned and more as really judgmental. "and brought his new gf who has two ds from two fathers" . I don't see what relevance this has. Are you unhappy that your db has got involved with a woman who you consider to be 'loose'? or is your problem that she has another man's (other men's) children, or that they aren't knuckling down and conforming?

How do you know exactly how much time they spend in the van vs. in the flat.

It really sounds like you look down on them terribly. I hope you don't give this impression when you meet up.

I loved this comment "just not to the same standards we keep ." !!!!!! Sound just like my dh's 85 year old grandmother. really.

I think a "stable home" can be having a mum who's loving and always there as much as it is a physical place.

If they are loved and looked after they will adapt well. YABU

Also, they will be learning things that are useful to their way of life - yes, being able to read and write are vital (though not too important at 5 and 3), but they will be learning all the time from experience, which is not to be underrated!

Agree with dalstondaisy that parental drug/alcohol abuse (not the odd spliff/drunken night) can be a problem but it doesn't sound like thats the case here.

I'm with your dh, a bit envious of their laid back non-materialistic life-style

Sounds like they'll grow up to be independent minded and with a breadth of experience that will probably enable them to have happy and successful lives. I prefer her style of parenting to some of the suburban housewives I know whose main focus is bleaching their houses and worrying about league tables!

agree with dalstondaisy.

Why does it seem unfair? They choose a lifestyle which is inexpensive and they don't have much by the sounds of things. There's nothing wrong with starting education late - in many countries school doesn't start until children are seven which personally I think is a good thing (although that's a whole different thread).

My friends took off when they had young children and travelled around south america with them. The kids had a ball and I really admired them for being so flexible and was a bit envious too.

Maybe you are a bit envious too? I hope you manage to find some common ground

It made my day to hear that people like that still exist!
Hasn't every major civil rights etc leader been arrested? Are they not good role models? I mean, being arrested for burglary or mugging is one thing, being arrested for protesting against nuclear weapons is quite another thing.

yabu

I don't mean to be judgemental - she just seems a bit flighty and scatty and I'm not sure she is really thinking of the impact on her dc of not seeing their mum having any ambitions or responsibilities iyswim.
I mean it is of course her choice but I want my dd to see that you have to work for what you have and not just spend your whole life drifting - like I said, I didn't have a problem with db's lifestyle choices as he is an adult, it just seems a bit different to impose the same thing on kids.
Whatever anyone says I am at the idea of letting your dc see you arrested unecessarily. Its not really anyhting to be proud of - there are lots of ways to make a stand without breaking the law.

lillycat, I am really sad that you equate this woman's life with not having any ambitions or responsibilities. What, just because she doesn't have a job? Does that mean every SAHM is a crap role model? Or is it because she doesn't own her own house? Does that mean every person living in rented accommodation is setting their child a poor example?

I think enjoying your life and what you do is a far better example for your kids than joylessly struggling through your 9-5 and then slumping on the sofa or leaving your kids with a baby-sitter while you go out to tedious dinner parties. Not saying you do either of these, but it seems you have a very narrow idea of what constitutes good parenting.

as for wanting to teach your children that you have to work for what you have, that's fine, but there are other important lessons, such as not valuing material possessions above people, being passionate about causes, and getting up off your arse to stand up for what you believe in. Maybe she's concentrating on those lessons?

So what you want to impose on kids is the idea that everyone has to conform, knuckle down, shut up and flog themselves to death for the minimum wage rather than evolving a low-income lifestyle that is actually enjoyable? ANd WTF do you mean that this girl has no'ambitions or responsibilities'? She has ambitions to make changes in the world, if she's involved in protest actions, and she has responsibilities because she has children who are, you admit, loved and well fed and happy. This family are not like YOU. Lucky them.

Oh, I'm proud alright.

In fact, short of giving birth to dd, its about the most worthwhile thing I've done in my life.

Oh, and how can you say she has 'no responsibilities'??

She has children!!

I bet your brother doesn't go for job interviews, that would piss me off more than the rest of it tbh.

I've been arrested on a protest about something I believe in. And I am proud of it. If my DDs don't grow up to believe it is important to take a stand against injustice, even if it means having to be dragged away by a couple of policemen, I will be disappointed in them. As far as I am concerned your DB is setting a good example, not a bad one.

princess...? Sorry not sure what your post means. Why should he go to job interviews?

He can't be on JSA if he's a traveller (an actually travelling one) - they are very strict about the rules for turning up to interviews.

Most travellers do seasonal work of some kind, or work in exchange for goods rather than payment.

Well if he is funding his travels from his savings then good on him, but if he is claiming job seekers allowance he should be seeking a job.

I haven't shampooeded my dd1's hair in lord knows how long, two years maybe.
please pop round and judge me at your convenience

She sounds like a pretty good role model to me

YABU.

I wish I wasn't sold that whole 'hard work is the solution to all your problems and if someone's not financially successful, it's because they're lazy slackers,' crock.

Because that's just what it is.

My ex h is half-German, brought up in Germany and didn't learn to read or write till he was 7.

It's had no negative impact on his life.

sound like a great and alternative lifestyle

you need to rethink your assumptions I think

Yes - if dirty hair was a crime I'd be banged up by now, what with dd's shower phobia and my dreads...

What an example to set

lillycat -Persumably your DB was brought up the same way by the same parents as you? Amazingly tho' he has turned out very different from you. Your DB GFs DCs will probaby grow up to be stockbrokers and you'll get the last laugh...