To think that people have become completely incapable....

[memorial]

Ok so I'm a GP (yes yes I know I could be anybody) and have been for over 20 years.
But bloody hell our society have become completely and utter incapable of any kind of self care or self responsibility. I have never known anything like the kind of demand we are facing. And I'm sorry most of it is just complete and utter nonsense. Over and over again.
Genuinely ill and needy people are being lost in the deluge. It's absolutely impossible to offer any kind of decent care. And we are losing doctors, nurses and staff rapidly. And we cannot recruit. It's not about pay It's about absolutely ridiculous workload and risk.
Yes the system is broken yes we need more of everything.
But every single thing does not need GP hand holding. It doesn't need 2 page complaints because you didn't get what you wanted when you wanted it.
Some days I just think people won't be happy until I go and wipe their arses for them.
I'm done. And it's not just me.

Op, you have been given a hard time here. People who don't work with the public, in the capacity that you do, can't grasp what you are experiencing, because they haven't been in your position.

I was a cop for 5 years and know exactly what you're up against, There is a certain group in society who do nothing for themselves, and just expect everything to be arranged for them by "someone else". It's an eye opener for sure. My own DH who has been a cop for 20+ years requested a move in to a non public facing role recently, because things have become so ridiculous that he was worried that he might snap. People who work blissfully in other sectors don't have the slightest clue.

I'm not going to answer some of the frankly laughable comments and assumptions. The misinformation is ridiculous.
So yes I am a GP ....for 25yrs
I have been around MN in various guises for almost 15 years (since I started in relationships with an abusive XH) so I kinda knew exactly how this would go.
I'm pretty thick skinned. But have openly said I am on the verge of burnout. Doctors are people with families too.
The misunderstanding about GPs, how we run, are funded, what we do is actually staggering and has given me a bit of insight.
I'm not sure why I would make up this thread. To what end. I am telling it how it is. Actually it's probably worse.
Just because you don't behave a certain way or have had a certain experience, doesn't mean that's how it is.
The job bears no resemblance to when I started 20 years ago. When I could actually go home for lunch. Yesterday my eldest DS brought me some food in at 3pm because she was worried I hadn't stopped all day. I got home at 9pm. Today is my day off and there is a pile of paperwork waiting for me to catch up.
My pay in real terms has dropped dramatically. My pension has been changed for the worse.
I dont want sympathy. That is not why I posted. Not sure why I did really. But this thread hadn't surprised me in the least. This is what we deal with every day. For those with understanding and support. Thank you. It makes the job easier. It really does.

I had to sit in the waiting room for 2 hours while having a gestational diabetes test recently. Some of them get the appointments by walking in and berating the desk staff until they submit. Then they finish with "I shouldn't have to do this, I'm not a pushy person. It's really upset me to have work so hard to get this appointment". Ok Karen I'm sure you're usually very reasonable.

OP, I couldn’t do your job. I volunteer with my dog in my local ED and the amount of people in there that don’t need to be is ridiculous so I can only imagine what GPs are dealing with. They kick off at me sometimes even though I clearly don’t work there and am just trying to cheer people up with my dog!

My GP surgery have been fantastic recently. My 18 week old baby has had a few issues and I have always been given an appointment on the day I’ve called. I also found a lump in my breast last week and the GP saw me the same day, referred me to the breast clinic straight away and I am now awaiting biopsy results as it doesn’t look friendly. Neighbours have been complaining they can’t get an appointment at the same surgery but the things they want appointments for are often something a pharmacist could sort out, so I expect that’s why they aren’t getting past triage…

Should add the bulge on DH’s stomach that didn’t actually look like a hernia turned out to be a huge cyst on his pancreas which if it had burst whist the doctor was trying to wrestle it “back in” Dh would have been killed

In the end either when the terminal prognosis was applied or we lived in the wrong postcode then any life saving surgery that Dh could have on the NHS went out of the window. We ended up paying for his cancer treatment out of savings and cashing in pension.

How different things could have been if he had got tested for bowel cancer 6 months earlier,

DS's physio told him he was the only teen she'd ever worked with who actually did his exercises every day. She told me she mentioned him to colleagues as 'The one I told you about who actually does the exercise so we can see the results - and they work!' (The results of her advice were spectacular.)

Must be so demoralising to be in healthcare and give good advice and have it ignored by people who return to complain that their symptoms are getting worse.

I don’t know anyone that goes to the GP for nothing or that hasn’t tried appropriate things at home first/asked pharmacist, other than one older woman but she clearly has health anxiety that doctors are not addressing. Round here though we can’t actually seem to see an NHS GP very easy at all, so many people are having to pay privately.

As for your comment on stomach pains for years, my friends husband had that, was given a couple of tests on the NHS over the years, nothing came of it, struggled on for years, back and forth to doctors, missing work, affecting his daily life etc.

They decided to get private healthcare and pay for a private GP, he was given a different test and actually diagnosed. Takes a medication now and no longer suffers. The private consultant said he sees the condition a lot and is frustrated that it’s not dealt with properly on the NHS.....so maybe you should listen to that person with their stomach issues. All that suffering for nothing and no doubt his NHS GP was an arse as he told this man that there was nothing wrong with him.

Nah I can see it OP.
i live in London and my medical centre so stretched.

when I do eventually get in the door with my 1 year old for an appointment, that she really needs, the waiting room is lined up with junkies getting angry cause they have to wait a little longer to see the doctor. Then I watch old people being turned away.

(yes I said junkies are a drain on the medical centre)

it’s so fucked. I’ve started using the livi app. I can’t tolerate how bad things are. When my daughter needs an appointment, I can’t get it.

Tbh you have to work in hc to know how misinformed people are.

Dh is an inpatient and his relatives tell him he should demand the treatment he wants and sign a disclaimer to say he’s ok with it going wrong. There are no disclaimer forms only consent forms and his consultants not going to lose her career if she knows a treatment is inappropriate.

I’ve told him his families insane.

@goldfinchonthelawn

Very demoralising in mental health. People want their brains and issues fixed instantly you see.

Total lack of responsibility that ALL the funding in the world wouldn’t solve as a large part of MH recovery means the person also doing some hard work themselves. It won’t happen, some people just love their own self created pity parties.

I don't know what your stance was on lockdowns but if at any point you supported them or thought they were a good thing then I have no sympathy for you whatsoever.

You simply cannot withdraw everyone's support systems for months on end and give them the message that it's dangerous/foolish to seek any sort of medical care and not expect absolutely massive consequences. This is one of those consequences - a burnt out, depressed population whose had all their ability to cope taken away, who've had the hideous evil 'stay safe' message shoved down their throats so hard they can hardly breathe.

In the name of 'staying safe' the government, with the full support of the medical community whacked the entire population in the knees. Now, when no one can walk, you're all complaining.

You are a joke.

Is there any back-up/supervision/help available for GPs approaching burnout?

There is a certain group in society who do nothing for themselves, and just expect everything to be arranged for them by "someone else".

You’ve hit the nail on the head.

They truly think they deserve to be ‘kept’ and that services should run themselves ragged to ‘keep’ them. That they’re ‘entitled’ to be housed, looked after and have their metaphorical shit picked up after them while being rude and abusive to the people working to help them. And of course none of it is their fault - it’s ‘mental health’. I’m pretty sure mental health wasn’t pretty 100 years ago but it’s amazing how quickly you snap out of it when there’s a life-or-death need to look after yourself. NO I don’t want to go back to those times. But a balance should be struck. We shouldn’t be afraid to tell people they have ultimate agency over their own lives.

Well obviously if I wanted to say it was a definite I would have used the word ‘definite’ or any of those words you state. I said it would make someone think twice, the definition of that is it would make someone think about what they’re doing, not definitely put them off doing it. And yes, that charge does make people think twice as I have plenty known examples of such.

Why the GP is getting so much stick I do not know.
Only reading her comments after 1st page.
A lot of the other comments goes completely to show what she is up against.

fwiw op, I know a fairly newly qualified GP. From what I know he is doing ok with it all[he maybe lives in a more affluent, "better" area than you do].
Just saying that as a tiny balance to what you are experiencing.
Obvs though, he dosent have burnout. Not yet anyway.

@memorial

You appear to have a lot of spare time on your hands. (To post so much on mumsnet.) I thought GPs were run ragged. You have dispelled THAT myth! Now go do the job (you are paid well for,) and look after your patients, instead of faffing about on internet forums!

Just for balance, I have nothing but praise for my - technically excellent, empathetic, caring GP (yes I always see the same one) who knows me and my family and has never once made me feel that I don’t deserve medical care.

But we live someone where GP services are privatised , so I don’t experience a system with the pressures that other posters/ the OP does.

good luck with what you decide OP.

Maybe having a day off?? Maybe working later in the day??

@WhileMyGuitarGentlyWeeps were you to scroll up just a dozen posts you’d see why the OP is posting today. If you’re able to use a 24 hour clock, you’ll see when the posts were made last night.

I come from a family of doctors, I support them, I have sympathy for GPs who are hardworking beyond what we think we see (I’ve commented above already with my view that I still don’t believe that the vast majority of a GP’s workload is time wasters given that everyone I know would probably be at death’s door before trying to go through the gruelling process of trying to get an appointment), however, the mocking and frankly disgusting Davina comment has made any respect or sympathy I had for the OP disappear. I think you’re at the point where you now have contempt for your patients OP which in itself means it’s a good thing if you leave.

Also, multiple things can be true. It isn’t always the case that GPs are lazy, the public are incapable and entitled and the system is broken. All these things can be true to an extent. I don’t believe the main issue is lazy or rude GPs by the way - despite my disdain for the OP’s attitude I will always maintain that I’ve had excellent care from GPs all my life, they are caring, extremely hard working and want to help people, ultimately.

@memorial I have to say, having sat in A&E for a 14 hour wait last week with my DS (it ended with surgery), I could hear the reasons why some people were coming in as there's no privacy, and I couldn't agree more with you.

Completely agree with you - in most aspects of life now people need handholding/cannot take responsibility for themselves/blow everything out of proportion (media mostly to blame) I worked in the police - same situation, enormous amount of time wasted with non-police matters - general public ignorance on what the police actually deal with. Sounds unfortunately very similar. Police going out to non-event which results in no one being able to respond to a genuine 999 call. Felt I was in a completely no-win situation.

I actually found this thread really eye opening. I have a 2yr old and probably do take him to the GP too much as he is always ill. Took him a few weeks ago and it was viral tonsillitis so nothing to be done or prescribed.
I do think it's hard to know if something warrants a visit to the GP or not, especially when a child cant tell you about their symptoms or how they feel properly.
Is it 111 we ring for advice? I feel like every single time I've called them they have told me to make a GP appointment or head to A&E just to get baby checked out. So it feels pointless to add in an extra step if that's always the outcome for little ones.

Dd asked for an appointment in February. Then came 6 months of a calling and emailing. In the end she only got one by going into the surgery to push them to give her an appointment.

Maybe these people have been driven to shouting because being calm and pleasant just means you are ignored. You don’t know what has happened to drive them to shout.

DD had a telephone appointment with our doctor who wasn’t interested in being sent a picture of what Dd was concerned about
Told dd to do various things that she had already tried and do things that even I know you don’t do. Then said she needed to go private if she wanted anything resolving.

I sympathize and empathize with you OP. Not similar in the slightest, but I have worked in a number of public facing roles and there is no group more unbearable than the British public. That's not to say everyone, but that noisy, irritating, almost willfully ignorant group of people who lack self awareness and a sense of personal responsibility particularly stand out and make an otherwise good job intolerable.

I'm beginning to think that if seeing a GP wasn't free at the point of contact and was instead £5/10 and fully reimbursed by the NHS afterwards (similar to the French system, where, before anyone jumps on me, poorer people do get free at the point of contact appointments) whether your regulars would think twice about darkening your door. Going to the GP for a sore knee when you weigh 20 stone and don't do any physical exercise for example is a waste of everyone's time.