To think that people have become completely incapable....

[memorial]

Ok so I'm a GP (yes yes I know I could be anybody) and have been for over 20 years.
But bloody hell our society have become completely and utter incapable of any kind of self care or self responsibility. I have never known anything like the kind of demand we are facing. And I'm sorry most of it is just complete and utter nonsense. Over and over again.
Genuinely ill and needy people are being lost in the deluge. It's absolutely impossible to offer any kind of decent care. And we are losing doctors, nurses and staff rapidly. And we cannot recruit. It's not about pay It's about absolutely ridiculous workload and risk.
Yes the system is broken yes we need more of everything.
But every single thing does not need GP hand holding. It doesn't need 2 page complaints because you didn't get what you wanted when you wanted it.
Some days I just think people won't be happy until I go and wipe their arses for them.
I'm done. And it's not just me.

I see posts about the fact people have such poor job security, don’t want to take sick days etc are being ignored. Also women and ethnic minorities are now aware of healthcare inequalities and some of them will stand up for themselves. It is far easier just to turn on each other instead of realising this is a complex issue.

So many people on the thread being sassy to the OP.

She doesn’t need to work for the NHS so she’ll go. And then where will we all be.

And the awful, rude attitude of too many on this thread is a big reason GP's, and other Doctors, are burning out and leaving the profession.

No Doctor I know does less than 20% over their contracted (ie, paid for) hours. Mostly nearer 50% - working 60 hour weeks is the norm, and 80 hour weeks not unusual. When they're paid for 40 hour weeks. They get called every name under the sun, told they're lazy and ungrateful.. I would never encourage a child of mine into medicine.

I am woke as fuck, and support free at point of service medicine 100%. Very vocally! BUT, the general population needs to understand that just because it is free at point of contact, you shouldn't take the utter piss. I recently spent a considerable amount of time in A&E with a very serious illness. Before me in the triage queue was a woman with a bruised finger nail, a man with a pulled muscle in his back, and someone who had had a 39c fever for 36 hours and "wanted to be on safe side". NONE of these required A&E, but as they all said (it was a LONG wait. Sadly this badly impacted my health but that's a whole other story), they "pay their national insurance so why shouldn't they use it".

It boils down to the fact that sadly too many of the general public tend to be rude and selfish.

That is a really interesting question. My own view (which I can't evidence!) is that expectations have risen significantly which in some ways is a good thing, but also that there are now unrealistic expectations of GPs and others - particularly in relation to social needs. The total system overload means that it becomes very inefficient, with multiple visits to address a problem etc. Unfortunately this is combined with short termism from politicians so the underlying problems persist and get worse.....

memorial. Have you thought of GP s having practices in Hospitals and Cottage hospitals with all the back up. So you have a one stop shop and won’t feel like you are doing it all alone? Just a thought.

OP I really do sympathise, and please please don’t give up.
Clearly people need educating about when to see a doctor and general health. It would have been something to expand on in Family Learning - for parents - but that’s almost all gone. It’s something that should be a decent chunk of PSHE in school, along with feeding yourself and finances.
Do you think people are more anxious about health in general than before COVID?
As someone who spend 10h with a sick relative in A and E last week and was utterly horrified with the hopelessness of it all, I eagerly await all the funding that BREXIT promised the NHS.

I really hope @Moaningturtle1 keeps her appointment tomorrow. Severe menopausal symptoms can ruin women's lives.

The state of play re: HRT and the NHS is bad enugh without women being made to feel belittled for seeking help (and monitoring) that is only available through their GP.

For anyone reading this thread with symptoms or worries and @Moaningturtle1 please come over to the Menopause board for a more sympathetic discussion. There are some posters there who really know their stuff.

This morning I was saying to my DH that I am so glad that parts of the NHS has become digitised during the pandemic.

Patient access provides all of the services we need for my DH repeat stroke medication, diagnosis of shingles and my booking of appointment for various things.
Digitised letter for MRI scan also.

I know not everyone can use digitised services but those of us that can and do are slightly lightning the load.

I hear complaints that people can't see a GP, they are clearly under so much pressure as OP bravely has posted.

The pandemic necessitated digitised NHS services, which I also know is another pressure on GPs, but it is hopefully the first step to creating a new NHS.

OP, I feel for you, thank you for post.

20 years is probably enough to do anyone's head in.
There's a difference between advocating for yourself and submitting yet another complaint because the Dr won't give you a referral/new test you saw on This Morning.

The person who sent the letter. Obviously. I am not a cardiologist. I haven't worked in cardiology ever. I am not an oncologist, orthopod, or surgeon. I am not the right person to ask. I try but it's not satisfactory for me or the patient.

However my patients will be devastated. If I leave I'm not sure my practice will survive. I am hanging on out of loyalty for my patient and staff. But yes attitudes like this will be the reason I don't hang on all that much longer.

Thanks for your dedication @memorial I'm a bit of a doctor dodger, so am not a burden to the NHS, but I remember when I did have quite a difficult injury, and attending occupational therapy classes to help rehab & recovery (and to try to deal with the chronic pain). I was still working flat out, as were 2 other people in my group. Despite the fact that our bone fractures were directly impacted by our work.

But there was one man who'd clearly never worked a day in his life, and neither had his parents. He would monologue for the whole hour about this or that consultant who "couldn't work out what was wrong with him" and the masses of equipment the NHS was delivering to their home.

I did think that at least I could see where my taxes were going, while I had kept working through debilitating chronic pain for 18 months.

And I see a certain kind of infantilisation in my undergrads - when I suggest that they need to prioritise buying textbooks over going clubbing - it's as if I suggest they sacrifice their first-born!

I could not agree more
My parents had difficult times in their lives financially and work wise
I remember them just getting on with it and dealing with it
Now the 1st response for anyone in any sort of fix is not to think
"i have a problem what do I do to sort it it"
Now it is
"it is all the governments fault what are they going to do to fix my problem"

I didn't read it that way at all. I think she wants to help people who are ill, not people who don't turn up for appointments, fail to act on advice or decide against an easy self-help via the pharmacy.

This idea that people who are bolshy, aggressive, demanding, entitled and can't take no for an answer are actually just very good at advocating for themselves is part of the problem.

OP, I hope you can see that there are still many people who appreciate what you do and understand how hard it is. Maybe this thread will make a few people think twice, who knows. Good luck planning your escape.

I’m just amazed people are able to get an appointment for many of the things you describe. It takes 2 weeks plus to get a phone appointment at my surgery so no chance you’ll talk to a doctor within hours or days of a cold or an ache. It takes at least half an hour to speak to a receptionist and you hear a recorded message every couple of minutes insisting you describe your symptoms to reception and reminders you might not speak to a GP but a nurse or a pharmacist instead. It’s a fine balance between not being ill enough to get an appointment and being too ill for them to agree to speak to you.

We never had the econsult I always hear about on here, you can’t email, if you go in they tell you to phone instead.

It would appear that there is a learned helplessness (aka lack of common sense) and unwillingness to take responsibility amongst many people these days.
"Someone" needs to sort this issue for me - who exactly the "someone" is, is never specified. There is a belief that a magic wand will be waved and, by a miracle, the problem is solved.
I notice this increasingly at work, too. People turn up to meetings, where they have requirements for their business area, and expect my team to produce the data needed to implement these requirement "out of a hat". Some people get very irritated when we point out that data provision is not our responsibility as our function is to visualise their existing data. If it doesn't exist, we cannot visualise it.
On the health front, I very, very rarely consult a GP. Mostly I know what is wrong and what I need to do to mitigate.

On the menopause front, worth pointing out that the NHS guidelines states that if you are over 43 and symptomatic then you go on HRT. The end.

No testing, no fucking about - that is the consensus and the protocol.

Surprised the OP doesn't know that. Sadly I am never surprised by the misogyny of the medical profession, including the female ones.

I'm also fascinated how all these people with mildly sore throats, broken finger nails and small bruises on a banged knee supposedly manage to get GP appointments. Really?? How?

GPs are health professionals. Their job in the UK is compounded by an entitlement culture where everything on the NHS is free at point of service. It is not a good system anymore and is unsustainable. It is the only country I know of that has universal free healthcare for all (nothwithstanding NI contributions which probably don't cover the costs of a bandage), so the myth continues.

Overall health professionals are just keeping the dam from overflowing, but that I suspect is just around the corner.

In general, there is a sad lack of respect for authority now amongst many. Think of teachers, health professionals, the police, law and order, traffic road rage, supermarket wars for yellow stickers, you get the drift. Me, me, me.

I highly respect anyone who takes care of my health needs and my security and the education of children, and anyone else whose job I am not qualified to do, but whose input improves my quality of life because they DO it as best they can with the meagre resources allotted to them.

The NHS will deteriorate even further, education is on its knees and so on. People get frustrated but rarely acknowledge that it is not the fault of the provider, rather the entity that holds the purse strings. Find out the policies of those you might vote for in the next election and blame them.

speak for yourself, my dr has been amazing when i went to them about peri.

The massive hospital waits, back logs and frankly absurd management is pushing this work onto us

If it is, I honestly don't know how these patients are even getting through to the surgery to demand anything

As we say on here anecdotes aren't data, but the surgery I've recently left it's impossible to contact them at all short of snail mail. Calls are cut off with a "high volume" message, their system won't allow texts be replied to, the email rejects messages and even that snail mail isn't replied to

Strangely enough my new surgery is able to manage all of this, so I have to wonder how much is due to that "unreasonable demand" (which certainly exists) and how much to downright bad management and a rather sinister wish to accept only patients who are willing to pay - something else being touted by their lead GP on NHS time

Wow I’m glad your not my doctor . Although I gave up months ago with doctors as like you , made me feel like I’m just a nuisance to them. They get well paid either way so don’t know why they have the crappy attitude some doctors do . Then when people commit suicide they say after ‘ you should go to your doctor for help if you feel
suicidal ‘. Yeah right!

Just to clarify re the menopause. I have plenty of time for menopause and women's health. And oodles of empathy having suffered horrific PMS and now menopausal symptoms. We run a dedicated weekly womens health clinic. As you can expect there is a bit of a wait ( a few weeks).
But Davina has engendered an almost religious fervour around this. That is frankly ridiculous. Of course it needs proper care. As does every other medical condition. Being menopausal doesn't trump others needs.
So demanding urgent on the day appts at 35/65 because you want HRT is not in any way appropriate. Spending 20mins berating a HCP because you think they aren't giving you what Davina says you need (eg oestrogen with undiagnosed vaginally bleeding).
So yes I am understanding. But no it does not trump everything else. It is not a medical emergency. I'm sorry it just isn't.

Exaggeration I expect ‘I think I’ve broken a bone’ ‘I think I’ve got tonsillitis’ etc

I think @Aquamarine1029 was addressing the OP, not your particular doctor.

From the other side. Maybe try listening to your patients.

A lot of repeat appointments with a GP are because people didn’t get what they asked for in the first place.
They know their own bodies. They just need someone to listen to them and try testing for what they know what is wrong and not treating one symptom at a time.

Dh was one of those people who kept going back to the doctors every couple of weeks, then every week, then every 3 days with stomach pain and bowel problems over the course of 6 months.
I vaguely remember Dh saying IBS was what one doctor came up with. Another a hernia (he had a bulge at the side of his stomach) The doctor tried to push it back in. Laxatives that you swallowed, laxatives that you drank, laxatives you shoved up your back passage and the number of Indigestion tablets he was prescribed.
GPs were clearly getting annoyed with Dh as he kept coming back. Reception staff were horrible asking if he really needed an appointment
In the end I had to get a wheel chair to help him into A&E as he couldn’t stand.
Doctor who saw him after tests were done asked why he didn’t go to his GP sooner. He was diagnosed with terminal bowel cancer.

All those appointments could have been for other people who might have needed a doctor., All that medication could have been saved if just one Doctor had listened to him and sent him for a test for bowel cancer instead of dismissing him for being overly dramatic, looking at Dr Google.
Dh’s father died of bowel cancer so he knew the signs

I too was left in agony for years because gp’s did their tests and decided I had anorexia and sent me to a psychiatrist who told me the pain I felt after eating was all in my mind. Not the stomach ulcer I had suggested.

As for people demanding what they want.
I have been to the doctors over different things (didn’t know they were menopause symptoms ) and the doctor has turned round and asked what did I think she could do.

I probably should have been on HRT years ago but when I put 2+2 together and asked for HRT I was told to soldier on through as the surgery didn’t believe in HRT