Anyone else absolutely shocked of three innocent people in Liverpool all drug related!!

[Toosadtocomprehend]

If anyone reading this that takes recreational drugs should be absolutely ashamed of the carnage that their habit is causing…an innocent 9 year old ,20 year old and 22 year old have lost their lives because of other people shitty pastimes …think think think before you snort or smoke that poison!!

LOL at you thinking that is some new tactic people don't know about. It's literally been being done all over the world for decades. Pretty sure anyone remotely streetwise is aware of that tactic. It's like 101 level.

Completely agree

@Miffee you really have a problem with IPhones done you?

i’m still waiting for you to enlighten us all how the production of Jo Malone candles and John Grisham novels are akin to selling crack?

Addiction isn't the only problem though. In fact I would say it isn't even the biggest.

Alcohol, cocaine and some other drugs have awful effects on people. They caus death and destruction constantly far removed from addiction.

I think it's incredibly niave and grossly hypocritical to think that the solution to the drug problem is getting individual consumers to stop buying them. I think the issue is complex, global and societal and indistinguishable from many other consumer goods that cause misery

It's not an either/or though, is it? Individual consumer choices do have a huge influence on demand.

And the fact that other commodities also involve exploitation is not a reason to accept the exploitation caused by drugs drugs. By your reasoning, we would never have addressed anything bad in the whole world, because "there's other bad stuff out there". You only have a right to education, the vote, and to own property because other people did not take your defeatist, whatabboutery attitude, but campaigned for justice and human rights.

No - someone on the run from the killer got into their house and the killer followed.

Once the killer ran off the other vile shit's (who dragged an innocent family into their nonsense) cronies turned up and took him away. Leaving the innocent child,

They are all scumbags

We can decriminalise/legalise drugs, take supply chain out of the gangs control. Support addicts properly. All good stuff. But then you’re still left with criminal gangs who will be looking for a new source of income. It’s a complex situation which I speculate has roots in poverty, disenfranchisement, lack of investment in services, and willingness for those of us in nice areas to turn a blind eye. There’s been documentaries on why young men join gangs and at the core they feel a sense of belonging and self worth in a gang that they don’t get from anywhere else.

But why are people in so called 'nice' areas turning a blind eye? Surely they know that these areas are just as over run with competing county lines as any other area and their children just as much at risk of being trafficked. County lines run from Liverpool are blighting wealthier communities across the north west and beyond just as much as poorer ones.

No. I don't have a problem with iPhones I particular. And I have no idea why you are bringing John Grisham novels I to things. I suspect its a reading comprehension issue.

You wait though, its much easier than addressing my point isn't it?

When you make something that people want illegal, you hand the trade over to criminals but the criminalisation is the issue.

Regardless of how harsh the punishments are, every country has a drug trade.

The idea that you can make a clean split between addicts and recreational users is a bit silly. Some people are simply better at compartmentalizing their lives than others. Drug dealers are not making the bulk of their money from people who are buying once or twice a year.

if you are talking about middle class parents who use mumsnet and like some coke at the end of a dinner party, then I totally disagree.

Middle class parents who use mumsnet are the very average 60% of the UK - that's one hell of a lot of demand for coke.

Nothing you said addressed my point. Indeed you quoted me then went on to address some other easier to address point of your own creation.

Did you think I wouldn't notice?

It would have been helpful if you were that clear to begin with @Miffee because I don’t actually completely disagree with you.

It is a huge problem that demands a wide ranging response. But at the moment the government is mostly tackling the gangs- which is tricky.

But the sad truth is that if there wasn’t a demand then there would be nothing to sell. Exactly the same as any other consumer product. So more work on letting the general population really know the cost of their drug habit would be helpful.

And don’t take it personally that people who work with kids think that you don’t know. Almost everyone I meet has absolutely no idea what goes on and no idea what county lines or that the main victims are from fairly nice backgrounds.

I listened to the 'gangster' podcast on the beeps. and also 'finding kevin p'
they talk a bit about the no-grass culture in certain areas.
not surprised.

I do hope that the murderer is caught and brought to justice.

that poor family. what an awful thing to have happened.

Well yes this is the case across the board. People in this country don't fight for things they believe don't affect them.

I really was. I said in my first post the issue was structural.

Your insistence that the drug trade mainly effects children from nice backgrounds is both demonstatably false and morally disgusting but crack on with your expert knowledge from that "project".

This is exactly what I was clumsily trying to say in my original post!
Many affluent well educated people in my town are one of the reasons these gangs exist and why they thrive !! They literally use drugs for recreational purposes which involves dealers !

@Miffee that's why the education around recreational drugs needs to be much clearer and more honest about their effects and their issues short and long term.

Not using scare tactics but straightforward factual information.

Legalise and control and you could add it to the labelling. A nice handy QR code with useful information like don't mix with alcohol as you are likely to wake up in a puddle of your own making with no memory of the night before.

Helpful stuff like that!

DD2 has an encyclopedia which covers pretty much every recreational drug from the perspective of a potential user.

It's very sad that this is the second time in this thread I have had to point out that poor humans actually count as people.

Some top level othering going on in this thread.

Just as much?

I agree everyone's child is vulnerable, but some are much more vulnerable than others and for most comfortable people, it's quite easy to believe this is something that happens to other people. Even when a more affluent child does get sucked in, they will usually have vulnerabilities such as DV or addiction at home, which means others without those problems can feel confident it won't happen to them. Which is why no one cares. 😥

Legalisation is one thing, but from what age and range of drugs? County lines means they run the festivals, these then are the 13-19 year old market. We aren't going to allow children to take drugs, we could question under 21 year olds considering what we know about the developing teenage brain. Then there's questions around if we supply them in prisons etc. There'll always be an illegal drug trade.

"County lines run from Liverpool are blighting wealthier communities across the north west and beyond just as much as poorer ones."

Our main county lines are into Wales and down to Torquay/Torbay etc. Mainly places left to rot by the Conservatives.

Nobody said that. People said it's not fair to blame the consumers anymore than any other u ethical trade like iPhone cobalt mining.

Then you implied cobalt mining isn't that bad cos drugs are worse.

If anyone is making it a competition, it's you. Nobody upon nobody disputes that your anecdotes are horrible.

But alcohol.

That's my answer really. We have a legal drug that causes absolute fucking misery despite educational campaigns and warnings.

I find it really a difficult question by the way. I am interested in the legalisation debate because I see both sides.

Some drugs like cannabis and LSD are easy. Of course they should be legal. Anything that is less harmful that alcohol should be available if for no other reason than to provide an alternative. But coke? That's just as bad as ale and together they make each other worse.

The only credible argument I can think of is that hard drug abuse would replace rather than add to alcohol abuse but I don't find that overly convincing.

You could apply the same thinking to alcohol. There is underage drinking, but there isn't a whole market around it for very obvious reasons.

"With better, more honest, information about the effects and risks of different recreational drugs and clean, legal supply I believe fewer people will end up in addiction in the first place"

How do you not get addicted to heroin?