Anyone else absolutely shocked of three innocent people in Liverpool all drug related!!

[Toosadtocomprehend]

If anyone reading this that takes recreational drugs should be absolutely ashamed of the carnage that their habit is causing…an innocent 9 year old ,20 year old and 22 year old have lost their lives because of other people shitty pastimes …think think think before you snort or smoke that poison!!

I agree, but it is also ignorant to think that telling people to 'stop taking drugs' is going to make any difference. Other strategies need to be explored for any chance of real change

True, but social pressure is powerful. Drink driving used to be accepted; now it isn't. That doesn't stop all selfish turds drink-driving but it deters lots of people who, in previous generations, would have thought it wasn't a big deal (watch the Yes Minister episode where Jim Hacker drink-drives for an illustration of the total change in social attitudes).

Yes, this is it. It needs a public campaign about the damage their "harmless" personal choices make that will, in time, make it socially unacceptable.

Maybe. I think it's worth a go for sure but I also think seeking out mind altering experiences is very much part of human behaviour. All things being equal I would rather my child be on ecstacy or cannabis than drunk. Obviously I would prefer neither but it doesn't seem like an option.

In that context I think we need to have a broader discussion about why only alcohol is legal and either send that the same way as smoking or offer an alternative.

That's weird question. I never used drugs in my life.
Not everyone is a junkie

@YellowRoad You may want to qualify that statement. A drug is a chemical that is taken that has a pharmacological affect on the body. By definition it includes caffeine, nicotine and ethanol (alcohol), all of which are consumed recreationally.

The line we draw to say which drugs are legal and those that are not is not as logical as you may hope. Prof David Nutt published a study in 2007 that looked at multiple factors in what drugs caused most harm to society, including impact on users, society, health system, criminal justice system etc. The results were surprising and got him sacked from the governments advisory committee on drugs as Prof Nutt was campaigning for a rational, harm prevention approach to drug policy.

I agree, that's why drugs shouldn't be legalised (i.e. normalised).

Oh let's not pretend you don't know what I mean.
Had anyone ever killed anyone while high on caffeine?
I'm talking about things like cannabis, heroin, cocaine, LSD, and other things like that.

I personally wouldn't mind banning alcohol as well, but that would never happen.
And nicotine, just because it stinks 😄

@MissLucyEyelesbarrow
The difference is the user being implicated in the harm of another person though. Very clear with drinking and driving, less clear with cannabis.

Also, it didn't deter people from drinking, just drinking and driving. You won't deter people from black markets when the alternative is either sobriety or putting themselves at further risk by producing drugs themselves.

Patterns differ, as you say, but that just means solutions need to be as unique as the challenges faced by a given society.

For example, America's opioid crisis is a direct consequence of its' healthcare system. This also goes some way to explaining the relative lack of issues here.

When papers celebrate the fact that gen z and millennials are drinking less, I just take it to mean that they're using other substances that gel better with their specific neuroses, which means more black market trade, because their lives are not any happier.

But one incredibly destructive one already is, wouldn't it make sense to have safer legal alternatives?

@Miffee yes, true - young people can take a reactional drug and it will not necessarily lead to a habit - I completely get it.

The problem is: it is a gamble. No one knows exactly where it will actually lead.

@YellowRoad
People have almost certainly killed people whilst "high on caffeine" simply because it's so ubiquitous and it's effects are associated with productivity. Caffeine is often a mainstay in military supplies for one.

If you're asking if anyone has killed anyone BECAUSE of the effects caffeine, I couldn't say. It's definitely more likely than something like MDMA or Cannabis on effects alone though.

I agree, that's why drugs shouldn't be legalised (i.e. normalised).

Drug use is already normalised.

Humans have sought out mind altering products from the beginning.

Legalisation and education will enable drug users to do it safely and remove a lot of power from dealers.

If heroin was prescribed by a GP crime would be reduced immediately, street begging too.

Legalising cannibas is a must as it is no different to alcohol if used in moderation, adults should be allowed to purchase or grow it without worrying about jail.

Teenagers wouldn't be so obsessive around weed if it wasn't forbidden fruits yet we're happy for an 18 Yr old to drink poisonous alcohol as much as they like often leading to danger too.

Cannabis is safer than alcohol by every metric. For a start you can't OD.

I don't thing "being high on caffeine" is a thing. Not in the same way as being high on heroin.

I don't think so. I don't think we should prioritise the well-being of drug addicts here.

Harsh but true.

Just googling to pass the time and this stood out to me

I'm really confused at how you took that from what I said.

Do you mean people who recreational drink alcohol when you say "drug addicts" otherwise your post makes no sense.

I'm talking about things like cannabis, heroin, cocaine, LSD, and other things like that.

@YellowRoad interesting - LSD was found to be relatively very low on the harm scale. What is the rationale for you putting it in the same category as heroin? Because it's "illegal"?

It's a universal human trait to want to get "chemically altered", whether that's achieved by a morning cup of tea and cigarette, a bar of chocolate, wine o'clock or getting off your tits on a weekend bender. We'd be far better off acknowledging that and then rationally deciding where to draw the line, and legitimising the supply lines. Portugal would be a really good place to start and see if it would work here.

(although as I said previously, this won't solve the problem of criminal gangs, who would just move onto something else to generate their income)

They explored a scientifically derived approach to drugs legislation then binned it because it's electoral suicide. This country has the drug laws it votes for, in disregard of the science

Lol. Why did it stand out to you? Because of the lack of evidence or clarity?

You are just talking about dosages and purpose.
Take 500mg of caffeine (which some people do before intense bursts of physical exertion) and tell me how you feel.
Take 20mg of LSD (which some people do as a regular "micro-dose" to aid productivity) and you'll probably feel like you drank an espresso.

Take 20mg of LSD

Maybe mcg might be a better idea...

interesting - LSD was found to be relatively very low on the harm scale. What is the rationale for you putting it in the same category as heroin? Because it's "illegal"
To add heroin related deaths are miniscule in comparison to alcohol and nicotine addiction related deaths.

@OneTC
Here's hoping noone takes my post as actual guidance 😂