To be shocked at how many of today's children behave?

[PlutoCritter]

Let me start by saying i'm in my early 30s and I definitely don't come from a "children are seen and not heard"/military-family type background where children weren't allowed to speak. my parents were quite laid back in some ways. however:

we've had our first child and this year i've started to make my first mum friends. (no dads, it's very traditional around here, all either SAHMs or part-time working mums as the primary carer, in a new fairly middle class area which we've only been living in for the last year or so, so don't have strong social networks yet.)

I've only really started to host "play dates" in the last few months and very often the baby's parents bring older DC along,which I thought was great!

So it's 2x babies plus (say) a 4 year old and a 5 year old. or a couple of 3 year olds plus a 7 year old. most recently, a 5 and a 6 year old with 2 babies visited.

and JESUS CHRIST, the average bahaviour is feral!

Most have been jumping on the sofa (to the point I thought it was going to break springs and had to tell them to calm it down myself eventually), one child going into our bedroom and looking through the wardrobe (!!) when going to the bathroom, one was repeatedly sneaking into the kitchen where i was making lunch and stealing stuff from the fridge 10 minutes before i was due to serve it, lunch just smashed up into a ball of mess and not eaten by older kids (5-7 years) regularly. Getting up halfway through a meal to run off and play with toys at age 8. Constant whining for snacks and sugar drinks. One refused to drink anything at all during a 2hr visit because we only had milk or water (i literally had no juice in the house to offer). Stealing food from other people's plates. Constantly interrupting adults having a chat - not while being ignored, just as the normal way of communicating. Ramming metal car toys into the wall so the wallpaper is scratched and the plaster has dents in it in the living room.

A few days ago, one little "darling" decided it would be funny to remove all the sofa cushions and drag them into the dining room so no one could sit down until it was all fixed as we helped the littler DC take shoes and coats off, then the %/6 (ish) child stood giggling while the adults just sorted it. if i'd done that as a kid as a guest my mum would have brought the wrath of god down on me there and then!

I genuinely don't believe a lot of this would have been accepted when I was a kid, and the first couple of play dates, i thought we'd just met a couple of bad apples, but it's now 5-6 visits with 3 different families. i'm not happy to accept further playdates at home if it's going to be like this and people think it's normal. DH is the same, he's been shocked at the state of the house when people have left and on the times he's been here, he's sick of people not telling their kids how to behave as a guest and feels similarly uncomfortable at e.g. having to intervene when a child has been doing something dangerous or damaing while the parent sits and ignores it.

please tell me this isn't normal????

(let me be clear, the kids seem perfectly NICE as children, and they play nicely, e.g. sharing toys, it's just the general disrespect for adults or breaking things that i am finding absolutely shocking.)

There’s a big difference between ‘not perfect’ and ‘people don’t want to be near them’.

This is definitely not normal behaviour! My eldest is 9 and I’ve met maybe 2 families through the years with a child displaying this kind of behaviour and it’s been down to additional needs.

I have a toddler. If they're not behaving well then I stop them, or if they really can't manage to behave then I take them home. Kids will be kids, it's the parents that are the problem.

YANBU.

I think often it comes from a good but misguided place. Parents care about their children’s feelings and as PP said they don’t like to see them upset and actively feel guilty if they’ve made them feel upset by telling them off.

Sometimes it’s having misconceptions about ‘kids being kids’. This idea that pretty much everything a child does is just them acting naturally as children so it should be allowed because restricting their natural behaviour is somehow damaging - drawing on walls and jumping on furniture included. When actually, although jumping and drawing are of course natural things that need to be allowed and fostered, children still need adult guidance in how to express these natural behaviours in appropriate ways - for example with paper or a trampoline…
Children are not experts on their own needs - you teach them to cross a road, you teach them how to eat healthily, you teach them how to brush their teeth properly and yes, they definitely also need guidance on how to behave. Many parents are unwilling or don’t know how to give that guidance.

I have the same experiences op, I'm a scummy lower low class sort of person, think tattoos and swearing but my kid is well behaved because I'm not a fool. His buddies however are from higher earning families, nurses/business owners on naiice new build estates but when they come here I need valium for a while afterwards. Tbf if I behaved the way these kids do, my mother would have actually battered me to death for the shame of it.

I still remember the neighbour girl who came to our house, and:

(1) Asked for a glass of orange juice. My mum gave her a glass and pointed out the carton in the fridge. Big mistake. L. poured herself a glass and drank it; then another glass and drank part of it and poured the rest down the sink; then poured the entire rest of the carton down the sink.

(2) Went up to the bathroom; squeezed the entire tube of toothpaste out onto the towel; threw the towel down and stamped all over it.

My parents were generally very tolerant and welcoming of other children, but you may guess that this was the first and last time she was allowed in!

This was the early 70s. She was 10, not a toddler; and had no known special needs, though I suppose people were less aware of such things in the 70s.

My point is that some kids have always been badly behaved!

Oh, and did I mention the 4-year-old son of a family friend, who caused quite a lot of embarrassment by stealing the weights from the grocer's van- the grocer was Not Amused.

I think things like not sitting still at the table are pretty normal, but not trashing your house while their parents look on. But as I say, I don't think it's new.

I feel your pain OP!
We moved into a newish house a while ago. We lived here for around two months before having some friends to play. Within two hours, there were scratches on the paintwork all the way up the stairwell, stains on the carpet etc.
And this is why I now don't invite any children to my house for playdates. Always meet at the park, always!

i wasn't under any illusions that my own children are perfect angels but it certainly made me appreciate how relatively well-behaved and non- destructive mine are!!

I have no idea if it's normal or not, but the behaviour you describe in your OP does seem to be commonplace now. And, no, I wouldn't have dreamed of behaving in that way as a child myself (in the 80s).

It's not normal but kids do need something to do. Suggest neutral ground next time

Eh? What's the other meaning of military family other than a family with one or more family members in the armed forces? @BeanieTeen

@Rosehugger because the term ‘military’ is often used in connotation with precision and strictness. Which makes perfect sense in the context of the OPs post. As opposed to her randomly thinking of military families as all having perfectly behaved children due to an overly strict approach to parenting - which makes no sense at all.
Maybe she should have said ‘military style’ or something for those unable to understand words out of usual context.

@Bonheurdupasse loads of family in France and have lived there . In my experience kids are in school absolutely loads in France , far more than in the UK and Ireland so kids in school from 3 years old until 4pm everyday at least (except Wednesdays in some cases) . Schools are a lot stricter there too , however secondary not any better than the uk there. I’ve seen many parents openly hitting kids over there also which is grim but that’s just what I’ve seen , I’m in Ireland and have thankfully never seen a parent hit a child. In my experience of France parents overall are so much more supported to work as school much longer and get so much more help in general so therefore aren’t with their kids as much so hands off a lot. I don’t think kids are necessarily better behaved there though eating practices are better as they all eat in school together so agree with that part.
I’m definitely on the stricter side than my friends kids but don’t at all relate to what the op is saying (some of it is classic they have a baby and they can’t imagine having an older child vibe!!). I don’t think some countries are inherently better than others at raising kids , it’s v individual so I always eye -roll at the idea that the French or Scandinavia are sooooo much better than everywhere else.

RicherThanYew · Today 16:03
I have the same experiences op, I'm a scummy lower low class sort of person, think tattoos and swearing but my kid is well behaved because I'm not a fool. His buddies however are from higher earning families, nurses/business owners on naiice new build estates but when they come here I need valium for a while afterwards. Tbf if I behaved the way these kids do, my mother would have actually battered me to death for the shame of it.

I can completely relate to this!

Sorry for broad generalisations, but yes, both as a teacher and a parent I found the kids from the local council estate to be better behaved because their parents had no truck with trendy ideas about parenting. They said no, they meant no, and there were consequences. Result: civilised children I was happy to have in my class and my home. Just my own experience, but I think there's a lesson there.

Again, I know it's unfair to generalise, but it did tend to be the more affluent, well-educated parents whose children were allowed to get away with too much. These parents had read all the latest books and articles about child psychology and basically just over-thought everything. One dad genuinely believed it was wrong to stop children doing anything they wanted to and would damage them. I told him that, while of course he loved his kids, if he wanted other people to like them he needed to set some boundaries.

And as another PP has said, all these problems float along the river until they get to school and frankly, no wonder teachers are leaving the profession in droves.

It’s part laziness and part wanting to “be kind” be their friend and not be a strict authoritarian Victorian type mother. Does the kid no favours as they up being as vile to other adults as they are to you and the other adults (utterly reasonably like the op) then think badly of them.

Sickened me how some parents would allow their young and primary aged children to treat them. Hitting/rude to their faces. Parents meekly taking it - being sappy and even often apologising to the kid! Setting the stage for nightmare teen years. Not how I was brought up nor Dh nor our two. Who are now funnily enough quite pleasant teens - must be a coincidence 🙄.

Kids are definitely more "free", these days and I'm only 27,
i wouldn't have been able to get away with it, that's for sure
my mum only had to give me that look ..

But in saying that , if my daughter came to your house, you would be talking about us right now!
She is autistic though, but she's like tasmanian devil whenever we go to someone's house..
I can't ever relax because I have to keep an eye on her constantly,
she likes to "explore" too, so I have to insist that any delicate items get put away, just to make sure nothing gets damaged and make sure bedroom doors are closed.
I will literally have to guide her back to the living room every few minutes but it is what it is..

I would never let her run wild and not do anything about it ..
I always bring things to occupy her like a board game, the ipad and make sure she's not wanting something but it is really hard to enforce rules into her,
I can tell her 1000 times not to go in to someone's fridge, not to go in their rooms, she's not going to listen, once shes transfixed on something,

She responds better to "on the spot" discipline,
so I would have to physically block her from going into the kitchen and tell her
" no " right there and then, take her by the hand and whisk her away, countless times.. until she gives up

And if she has a meltdown, starts kicking off screaming we have to take her somewhere quiet to calm her, and that usually means its time to go home..
We are probably not great guests to have 😅 which is why we don't really do visits that often, because its just too much and I'm always stressed about damaging someone's things
it can get awkward when I'm constantly jumping up and down in the middle of a conversation
Meeting up in a public space or an activity is more our style ..

A lot of parents think they have to be friends with their children, rather than bringing up the next generation to be civilised members of society. They are also afraid to say no or establish reasonable boundaries. Then they blame it on the schools later on.

I saw SO much of this when I had mum friends. I now don't have mum friends. A big part of this is why. If it's not the house trashing or going through your stuff (I once had a friend's 5 year old go rummaging through my handbag right in front of us - his mum said nowt), it's the constant, incessant interrupting to talk about utter drivel and the performance parenting it produces (I had one friend stop me in the middle of a conversation to listen to her young child verrrrrrryyyyy sloooooooowwly count to ten in Spanish, about which I couldn't give a fuck). I have work colleagues who relate their kids' personalities with such utter pride when honestly they just sound like feral, over-confident nightmares.

So yeah, YANBU. Meet up outside or possibly ditch them for parents who actually parent if any still exist.

Maybe she should have said ‘military style’ or something for those unable to understand words out of usual context

@BeanieTeen Maybe she should have said "military style" because that would have been correct then, rather than "military family" which refers to one or more family member being in the armed forces, in every case. It's not a case of my not understanding words used out of context, it's a lack of precise expression by the OP causing general misunderstanding.

Jumping on sofas is normalised in your circle? WTF?

I have a boy and none of his friends have behaved like that in our house.

Thinking back, one primary aged kid who was new to the school was a bit keen on agressive play (using household objects as weapons), but I soon nipped that in the bud in a ‘my house, my rules’ type speech to him.

He’s growing up into a really nice polite lad now.

I'm in my 50s and my DM always said that we were little sods in the house but she could take us anywhere and have no fear of us misbehaving.

She had the mum stare which would stop us in our tracks and we would be hauled off home with the threat of "do you want a smack?" if we dared to misbehave any way.

What exactly were you imagining the parents would do with other children during the school holidays? I'm not excusing anything but it is a bloody military operation to ensure DS (5) has had care while I've been working 3 days a week over the summer holiday.

But no, that's not appropriate. Stop inviting these people or wait til kids are back at school. And bear in mind your feelings now when you think your PFB is being cute in 3 years while others look on in horror.

woah apologies, i didn't intend to offend any literal military personnel.
I meant it in the Sound of Music method – as in “command and control” in terms of style
Not actual military families are terrible or good at parenting (I only know 2 and not well so can’t claim to have an opinion on that)
Apologies for offending anyone by poor wording

We ask / make the kids who come to play at our house follow our rules. That’s shoes off inside, no jumping on the furniture, no going in our bedroom or my home office, and sitting at the table to eat and drink, and we reinforce it.

easier at nearly 7 tho as the parents usually drop and go

As someone many years ago once said "The main purpose of children's parties is to remind you that there are children more awful than your own"

Yea they are 🤣🤣🤣

See above where I pointed this out and someone actually literally said but she typed "military family"

Luckily most of us actually understood the concept!

It really is common, OP. I see it everywhere. I think part of them problem is that the current generation of new parents were themselves raised with very child-centric parenting that focussed on self esteem, constant praise and letting kids freely express themselves, etc, at the expense of teaching good manners and discipline. Unfortunately I think a lot of those kids grew up to be pretty immature and entitled adults, who would rather ignore bad behaviour in their own kids than experience the hassle of disciplining them. The self absorption of many of that generation is now translated into their parenting, and an idea that other people should just suck up the crappy behaviour of their kids.