To be shocked at how many of today's children behave?

[PlutoCritter]

Let me start by saying i'm in my early 30s and I definitely don't come from a "children are seen and not heard"/military-family type background where children weren't allowed to speak. my parents were quite laid back in some ways. however:

we've had our first child and this year i've started to make my first mum friends. (no dads, it's very traditional around here, all either SAHMs or part-time working mums as the primary carer, in a new fairly middle class area which we've only been living in for the last year or so, so don't have strong social networks yet.)

I've only really started to host "play dates" in the last few months and very often the baby's parents bring older DC along,which I thought was great!

So it's 2x babies plus (say) a 4 year old and a 5 year old. or a couple of 3 year olds plus a 7 year old. most recently, a 5 and a 6 year old with 2 babies visited.

and JESUS CHRIST, the average bahaviour is feral!

Most have been jumping on the sofa (to the point I thought it was going to break springs and had to tell them to calm it down myself eventually), one child going into our bedroom and looking through the wardrobe (!!) when going to the bathroom, one was repeatedly sneaking into the kitchen where i was making lunch and stealing stuff from the fridge 10 minutes before i was due to serve it, lunch just smashed up into a ball of mess and not eaten by older kids (5-7 years) regularly. Getting up halfway through a meal to run off and play with toys at age 8. Constant whining for snacks and sugar drinks. One refused to drink anything at all during a 2hr visit because we only had milk or water (i literally had no juice in the house to offer). Stealing food from other people's plates. Constantly interrupting adults having a chat - not while being ignored, just as the normal way of communicating. Ramming metal car toys into the wall so the wallpaper is scratched and the plaster has dents in it in the living room.

A few days ago, one little "darling" decided it would be funny to remove all the sofa cushions and drag them into the dining room so no one could sit down until it was all fixed as we helped the littler DC take shoes and coats off, then the %/6 (ish) child stood giggling while the adults just sorted it. if i'd done that as a kid as a guest my mum would have brought the wrath of god down on me there and then!

I genuinely don't believe a lot of this would have been accepted when I was a kid, and the first couple of play dates, i thought we'd just met a couple of bad apples, but it's now 5-6 visits with 3 different families. i'm not happy to accept further playdates at home if it's going to be like this and people think it's normal. DH is the same, he's been shocked at the state of the house when people have left and on the times he's been here, he's sick of people not telling their kids how to behave as a guest and feels similarly uncomfortable at e.g. having to intervene when a child has been doing something dangerous or damaing while the parent sits and ignores it.

please tell me this isn't normal????

(let me be clear, the kids seem perfectly NICE as children, and they play nicely, e.g. sharing toys, it's just the general disrespect for adults or breaking things that i am finding absolutely shocking.)

then we had children hitting their parents (which was absolutely unheard of before the 90s).

It's unheard of now! I've never heard of a (NT) child hitting their parent. Sounds like something you'd want SS involved with.

Yes - a lot of parents are absolutely terrified to upset their child at all and see it as somehow abusive. But IMO if you say your child can't draw on someone else's walls, and they cry, well tough shit they need to be told, it's not cruel, it's just life, and they get over it.

Once at a playpark another child was following my 3yo DD around and pushing her off anything she tried to get on (there was no shortage of spaces either, she was just doing it deliberately). The mum was watching but did nothing. I politely said could you tell her not to do that, my DD is not getting to go on anything. She looked at me with an absolutely petrified look in her eyes and said "I can't... she might be upset." I said "that's OK, you're allowed to tell her off you know" but she just couldn't. So I told her to leave my DD alone and stop bullying her. The mum was just paralysed and took no part in it. Bananas. I've known multiple parents like this.

I would be mortified if I went into someone's home and my children behaved like that and certainly wouldn't have stayed if they were doing that. Yes kids get over excited and misbehave but what you have described is not on if the parents are there doing nothing about it.

Agree.

Kids will be kids and they'll all test the boundaries or have bad days where they are emotional.

The issue is parents who won't deal with it and also I've found people seem much more embarrassed by their child's behaviour and therefore would rather ignore than deal with it.

The other day I was at a trampoline park in the toilet and a young child (maybe 4/5?) was upset because a staff member had asked him not to do something. The mum was recognising he doesn't like being told off (she actually said to him it was a reminder not telling off) but also said that he needs to be reminded and why.

He started escalating and she was firm that that behaviour wouldn't be tolerated by her and if he choose to do it when on the equipment he'd be asked to leave and she would be taking him home.

He was clearly having a "moment" and as I left the cubicle I opened the door slowly aware this child could appear behind the door anytime.

Mum noticed and said "don't worry he's not behind the door". I laughed and said thanks and I was sure a clonk on the head was the last thing he needed as he was clearly already overwhelmed. She said he'd been having a tough few days and I just said they all have their moments but I think the weeks on end of heat including over night has taken its toll on even the passive of people (adults included!).

There was no need for the mum to feel embarrassed or for me to make her feel bad. This was just a situation that happens everywhere all the time and she was doing a bloody good job of dealing with it.

We need parents to feel empowered to deal with their child's behaviour (especially in public) and feel others empathise rather than judge.

My ds is an adult now but I remember when he was having a moment that some people would tut when I was dealing with it and some would even tell me not to be so harsh (I was never unkind but I would deal with it and if he was overwhelmed we'd go home for his sake as well as that of others)

You're not wrong DDs friend came round recently she's 9 and went into my bedroom rooting through my drawers and sat on my bed. I told her off.

One of my biggest parenting lessons so far (2 year old and 6 year old) - is that - each phase is so novel, and every child grows up to be so unique through their changes and developments - that I dare not judge a parenting stage which I’m yet to experience.

I learnt very swiftly - that - judging how others give birth/breastfeed or not - before I had walked in their shoes - was misguided of me.

I learnt equally swiftly - that forming decisions and judgements around what primary kids “should” do/consume etc - when my eldest was crawling about is his nappy - was also misguided of me.

The other day I felt very quick to judge a 13 year old and her mum’s interactions in the supermarket. But this time I checked myself. Perhaps I don’t know yet what parenting a teen is like or what I’m now 6 year old will be like at 13.

The original quote literally said military family.

I know what it says but I read it as military as is the description of strict using military rather than military families.

Like some clubs and sports groups are described as military. As in too strict.

@PlutoCritter
That is absolutely bone idle parenting on the mother’s behalf.
Shocking.
Don’t invite these kids back ~ That is feral, ill mannered behaviour.
Discipline definitely is slipping-
A lovely polite child is a credit to their mum or dad.
Good kids are about-
Vet the parenting styles as playgroup.

i had the exact same thing happen but with my friend who I’d known since I was 12

we both had babies-me at 19,20,21,24,26 and 29

she had hers at 21,30 and 32 so our sons where more or less the same age,mine where a tad older than her younger two

if we where round hers,I made damn sure mine behaved-on the odd time mine where naughty but I’d nipped to the loo,she would tell them off and that was fine

(they knew how to behave-and they’d be in trouble if they didn’t follow the rules and boundaries I placed (and they where not angels at all but I’d deal with it)

could I bollocks,do the same back-they’d come round,make the biggest mess known to man,break stuff,whinge until mum caved (only took about 5 seconds) ,they’d do something naughty,she’d see them do it-then ask if they had just done whatever it was,they’d say no so she’d tell off whichever of mine was closest even though we’d both seen hers do it!(I did have words but she denied it),they’d help themselves to whatever they liked,stand in the way,so you’d trip over them,then cry because you hurt them-mummy would then coo over them and I’d be the bad guy and if they trashed something,they’d try to blame one of mine,even if mine had been nowhere near it-every bloody time,mummy believed them

her favourite trick was to allow them to trash my house but as soon as I said it was time to tidy up,she’d stand up and tell hers to get coats on as they had to get home!

her favourite saying was ‘small person,big feelings’

unsurprisingly her eldest became the school bully-my son was the target,(I drew the line at that so he moved on) but it seemed he had a forcefield around him and he got away with stuff that would make your hair curl-with his mummy behind him,standing up for her ’little boy’ (this didn’t wash at secondary school)

I ended the friendship around this time,after seeing her niece slap one of mine because he refused to give her his ball-and her sister just cooed over her dd and tried to tell my ds that ‘he had to hand it over as she’s crying’

if that had been my adult dd with her child I would have stepped in and told her that it was her dd to blame but the grandparents where just stood laughing and cooing at her while giving my ds dirty looks for not just giving in and giving her the damn ball (they where both about 9/10 at the time)

Feral little fuckers!

I voted YABU just because you have play dates for a baby? Do you mean a 'coffee morning'?

You've really never seem a small child hit out at their parents when cross? I think k that is fairly normal in littles.

My kids certainly never behaved like this, we had specific challenges as dd1 is autistic (diagnosed at 2) and yet she was taught right from wrong too! I think the number one issue is parents not wanting to disrupt conversations to actually parent their children, the same reasons kids are running riot in restaurants (or previous thread). When going to peoples houses or out for a meal with kids you can't act as if they aren't there, you need to be interacting with them and yes telling them off if needed. Mine are certainly no shrinking violets, they speak up but they knew how to behave

Then the OP would be advised that 'military family' generally means... military family.

Most children are really just living out the insanity of the society they have been born into I think. The technological living, families have been weakened, the media, social media, detrimental education etc etc
Parents are unable to remedy this if they have known no better themselves -😕 its a mess.

Some of that i have never experienced in 12 years and 3 years of hosting play dates, I can't remember my house ever being destroyed or anyone going in my bedroom or stealing food.

The interrupting and fussy eating is pretty normal though

I still do ‘house rules’ at the start of play dates now for my 11yo - only go into her bedroom, not any of the others, if you want food ask me and eat it in the kitchen, the toilet is upstairs.

Mine are older now, and while I can’t know if they ever behaved badly on a play date when I wasn’t there, I do know that I’ve reminded them to say please and thank you, help to tidy up, check house rules etc before and checked with the parent after about behaviour. And I’ve never had any complaints.

I haven’t forgotten the time I found one child first ransacking my pockets and then my cupboards looking for chocolate, then hiding in my room refusing to leave. In the end I retrieved her, as her mum had spent 10 minutes failing to, and handed her over at the door like a parcel. She didn’t seem to hold a grudge, and still asked for play dates!

@Cinnabomb

I've brought up two children who never jumped on the sofa and none of their friends have attempted to either, ditto beds. Behaviour starts at home. Teach reasonable boundaries then you won't be embarrassed by your dc's behaviour out. Same goes for meals - you can spot the kids in restaurants who eat as a family at home vs the ones given food separately often on laps - even if you only manage it 3-4 times a week eat as a family at the table, teach them by asking to pass the condiments etc. parenting isn't rocket science, but it requires consistency

It's not black and white. It's not a binary choice between "perfect" and "feral".

Covid has made adults and children alike forget how to behave.

Doesn’t surprise me at all as it’s the modern parenting fad of never saying no to a child (abusive apparently), letting them set their own boundaries and encouraging them to do/say/act however they want on the basis of letting them explore/express emotions and a million other newfangled batshit things.

A kid jumping on your lounge is no longer to be chastised, their parents will sing their praises because they are ‘spirited’ and ‘know their own minds’ and ‘a girl who isn’t afraid of being physical’ etc. The best you can hope for is some twee talk they may have with the child about feelings. Said child couldn’t give a shit, their mind is elsewhere while the parent is rabbiting on to them about potentially expressing feelings another way than demolishing your couch but the kid won’t even be listening. Your couch is fucked I’m afraid and don’t dare say anything to the child or you will destroy their self esteem for life seemingly.

I didn't behave like that and didn't see other kids behaving like that when I was little. But then I never went to other kids' houses for a mass play date with 0-7 year olds. It sounds like quite a stressful environment for adults and kids, all those kids of varying ages together in a house at once, adults trying to have a chat and not supervising properly.

I used to get together with two other mums with babies the same age and take it in turns to go to one another's houses. Kids all in one room or garden and properly supervised. A mass play date/coffee morning etc with lots of kids of varying ages does sound a recipe for disaster in any time!

could it be lock down related?

I have found that the posher the parents, the less they like telling their kids off. I live in a London neighbourhood that is gentrifying and my older kid's friends got told off and were generally well behaved but with the younger one three years later the parents were really really ineffectual and like 'Don't do that Ignatius, no please darling, oh dear' etc. The kids were a bloody nightmare as a result.

In some ways I think it's almost an unwillingness to engage with the kids in any way. Eg if your kid is jumping on someone else's sofa and you don't want to tell them off, find them something else to do! It doesn't have to be unpleasant all the time but it does take effort!

military families are also kind, loving places where children are allowed to speak.

I’m from a military family, and not for a second did I think the OP meant actual families with parents in the military.
Are people really taking that literally 😂

I’m from a military family, and not for a second did I think the OP meant actual families with parents in the military

Eh? What's the other meaning of military family other than a family with one or more family members in the armed forces? @BeanieTeen

I think she meant military family like captain von trapp who parented with his whistle, not like actual families with soldiers in them who parent in all sorts of ways.