To be shocked at how many of today's children behave?

[PlutoCritter]

Let me start by saying i'm in my early 30s and I definitely don't come from a "children are seen and not heard"/military-family type background where children weren't allowed to speak. my parents were quite laid back in some ways. however:

we've had our first child and this year i've started to make my first mum friends. (no dads, it's very traditional around here, all either SAHMs or part-time working mums as the primary carer, in a new fairly middle class area which we've only been living in for the last year or so, so don't have strong social networks yet.)

I've only really started to host "play dates" in the last few months and very often the baby's parents bring older DC along,which I thought was great!

So it's 2x babies plus (say) a 4 year old and a 5 year old. or a couple of 3 year olds plus a 7 year old. most recently, a 5 and a 6 year old with 2 babies visited.

and JESUS CHRIST, the average bahaviour is feral!

Most have been jumping on the sofa (to the point I thought it was going to break springs and had to tell them to calm it down myself eventually), one child going into our bedroom and looking through the wardrobe (!!) when going to the bathroom, one was repeatedly sneaking into the kitchen where i was making lunch and stealing stuff from the fridge 10 minutes before i was due to serve it, lunch just smashed up into a ball of mess and not eaten by older kids (5-7 years) regularly. Getting up halfway through a meal to run off and play with toys at age 8. Constant whining for snacks and sugar drinks. One refused to drink anything at all during a 2hr visit because we only had milk or water (i literally had no juice in the house to offer). Stealing food from other people's plates. Constantly interrupting adults having a chat - not while being ignored, just as the normal way of communicating. Ramming metal car toys into the wall so the wallpaper is scratched and the plaster has dents in it in the living room.

A few days ago, one little "darling" decided it would be funny to remove all the sofa cushions and drag them into the dining room so no one could sit down until it was all fixed as we helped the littler DC take shoes and coats off, then the %/6 (ish) child stood giggling while the adults just sorted it. if i'd done that as a kid as a guest my mum would have brought the wrath of god down on me there and then!

I genuinely don't believe a lot of this would have been accepted when I was a kid, and the first couple of play dates, i thought we'd just met a couple of bad apples, but it's now 5-6 visits with 3 different families. i'm not happy to accept further playdates at home if it's going to be like this and people think it's normal. DH is the same, he's been shocked at the state of the house when people have left and on the times he's been here, he's sick of people not telling their kids how to behave as a guest and feels similarly uncomfortable at e.g. having to intervene when a child has been doing something dangerous or damaing while the parent sits and ignores it.

please tell me this isn't normal????

(let me be clear, the kids seem perfectly NICE as children, and they play nicely, e.g. sharing toys, it's just the general disrespect for adults or breaking things that i am finding absolutely shocking.)

‘Military type background where children weren’t allowed to speak’
have you any idea how ignorant this comment is?

Lots of parents who don't want to upset the little darlings, parents who want to be best friends with their child, and those who plain can't be arsed and would rather sit in the pub, watch sport, scroll on their phones, get their nails and fake tan. Etc etc etc

I totally agree with you.

100% agree.

I've had some absolute nightmares round here - literally trashing the place, throwing things at pets, throwing food on the floor and refusing to pick it up, screaming, swearing, repeatedly asking for treat foods, throwing things, ignoring requests from parents (if present), looking at me like a piece of shit if I ask them not to do something and hardly ever saying please or thank you!!

We live a 'naice' area, very middle class, all very polite and perfectly lovely parents but some of the kids are just AWFUL!

I do find that the worst culprits tend to be those of parents who speak very meakly to them, like 'Oh don't do that, daaaarling' in a most sappyish voice and the kids just point-blank ignore them!!

You absolutely have a point, OP.

Well done for recognising it and, whilst all kids can act up, at least you know you're aiming to raise yours to be polite and not wreck other people's homes!

So you let your children wreck others people’s houses, prank the adults and go through hosts drawers? And that’s fine because…..kids?

you should wear a sign around you so everyone can give you and you expectations a wide berth.

OP- I have experienced similar behaviour this weekend and have been told the whole ‘oooooh just you wait!’. I’ll be waiting a long time to put up with the disrespect their children showed the adults in their family.

I’m not a Victorian style parent from a strict family- but no way were we allowed to damage property or be rude.

Not normal - hold off on the play dates at home till the older ones are back at school . There probably isn’t enough for them to do and somethings you are complaining about the children concerned probably doesn’t realise the consequences . Doesn’t make it any less irritating though

I think these are the offspring of Netmums not Mumsnet parents…

I get it. But then it's been over two years since I've had the chance to take my own six year old to someone else's house ..... I'm constantly thinking about 'retraining' his awareness of other people's space and how he is expected to behave there. Unfortunately the "training" even for the biddable ones is probably behind for the children who's families stuck to the rules. It takes repetition to learn behaviour, it takes practice.

I think since smacking has become very much frowned upon (and rightly so), people just don’t know how to get their children to behave.

since smacking, there was the naughty step (thanks to supernanny), which many people liked. Then it became frowned upon to use the naughty step as you were punishing and isolating a child. Then the word naughty became frowned upon, you were seen as labelling that child.

parenting became very ‘please don’t do that, mummy doesn’t like it’ etc

then we had children hitting their parents (which was absolutely unheard of before the 90s).

I think parents just don’t know what’s right, how to parent etc.

to parent properly it needs consistency, constantly teaching them right from wrong, lots of explaining etc and it’s emotionally exhausting, people can’t be arsed, it’s too much effort.

years ago a slap was quick and effective. You very quickly learnt not to do it again, otherwise you would be hit, not because you knew why something was wrong.

teaching children right from wrong without slapping them requires a lot more effort and parents just haven’t got it in them.

Parks, swimming, play gym etc is the way forward - toddlers are a nightmare inside. One friend to play at most else they do go feral!

Well at least they're not dumping it at Brexit's door, maybe Thatcher is an additional box on their bingo card! Personally, I think that Harold MacMillan has a lot to answer for.

Not normal...I have 3 dc.. 2 with ASD and ADHD... they would not do this... to be fair they might try... having zero impulse control and little idea of consequences, but they wouldn't get to actually DO it, because I work damn hard to stop them.. there is no such thing as a relaxed cup of tea with chat as I have to be on it all the time. Sometimes I know can't be or its just not going to work so we don't go...

It's not usual nowadays, and I don't think it ever was. It's bad behaviour, and I don't think it's a 'nowadays' thing, though perhaps lockdowns have made some children and even parents less socially aware.

OP sadly this was / is also our experience of having other people's children in our house!
And our dc is now a teen so it's not a recent thing either.

I was always utterly shocked at the carnage left behind by some kids & their parents just ignored it. We used to have a toy chest with a basket of toys on tip of it in the kitchen when dc was small. I used to dread seeing certain neighbours coming to the door as their kids (3 of them!!) Would race in and in a matter of literally seconds they'd tip the contents f the basket onto the floor, rummage through it & them open the chest & start going through that

Their mother would stand there utterly ignoring it & after a few mins I'd say right let's tidy this up & she'd invariably say OK kids time to go & she'd usher them out.
I stopped asking her in in the end

It's a nightmare

Agree with everything @SafeHeaven said.

You have my sympathy and support, OP. As other PPs have said, put your foot down and don't accept this kind of thing as 'normal'. My children are grown up but your post brought back some horrible memories. Yes, it was the accompanying older children who generally caused mayhem, and actually several pounds worth of damage. I had one little darling (4 years old) trying to climb the curtains, and when he pulled down the entire pole the parent's only concern was that he might be upset. Kids would jump on the sofas and chairs, break toys by jumping on them - all sorts of horrors.

My MIL thought I was mad to have them round at all and certainly bonkers to let them out of my sight at any time. With hindsight, I agree wholeheartedly with her. Go to the park or public play areas - it's just traumatic seeing your home trashed on a regular basis. Oh and don't take any notice of the 'bohemian' parents who try to guilt-trip you for caring so much about 'things'. I had all that too...I heard one mum sneering at someone who 'was too worried about her stupid carpets to let the children play happily'.

Things will also get nicked. Now I understand that small children don't have a full grasp of right and wrong etc, but parents should. My children had a treasured family of mice (bought by my richer sister!) and the little girl of the family disappeared after one play-date. I suspected who had taken it (a 4 year old) and politely asked the mum. Her response (a week or so later, so she'd had plenty of time to let me know and to return it with apologies) was a sheepish 'Oh, but Emma loves it so, I couldn't bear to take it off her!' She didn't see the irony in her reply at all - even when I told her my children were upset that the family was missing its daughter!!! Never got her to cough it up.

I'm afraid I still feel cross about these things. I was brought up, and brought my children up, to respect others and their homes and belongings. I would supervise my children and if they had damaged anything (which they didn't) I would have apologised and replaced it.

But there is a huge problem of ENTITLEMENT around in many areas of life now.

Mine wouldn’t have done that at that age, but if we were at friends’ houses they also had DC the same age, so someone to play with and age appropriate toys. And if they were at family homes they had adults who were interested in engaging with them, or little cousins they love playing with as babies are a novelty.

I can’t guarantee what they’d have done if they were with a baby sibling (therefore babies boring) at a house with another baby and baby toys and adults talking about babies.

And I assume that you're one of those who condone being a brat, well done!

"Perfect" is not the same as "has normal level of discipline". Guessing yours are feral.

@DiscoStusMoonboots I am so sorry. It must be so hard, day in and day out🥺

It's not normal, stop associating with lazy parents.
I had the same problem, they destroyed my house in 3 hours one child even tumbled down the stairs while the mum sat and drank her tea and expected me to sort it! 🤦🏻‍♀️
As a result if we do play dates - we do it outside at soft play or the park and I avoid the lazy parents.

There's also a difference in what different parents tolerate and one benefit of playdates is that children learn that different houses have different rules. So just be firm in enforcing yours.

For example, I won't allow jumping on the sofa but don't mind the sofa cushion being used to play floor is lava or to build forts. In one friend's house, the kids are allowed to jump on the furniture and make up obstacle courses. In some houses, food is only allowed in the kitchen while others are less strict. Children can go upstairs in some houses (including into parents' bedrooms), whereas upstairs is out-of-bounds in others. I'm finding with my 4yo that it's useful to teach them to ask about the house rules on playdates ("can I go upstairs?", "is food allowed out of the kitchen" etc.). It's also the perfect age because I still go on most playdates with them and can remind them.

Part of the issue nowadays I suspect is that fear and awe of adults plays much less of a part in parenting. So rather than assuming that they'll get into trouble and so making themselves as unobtrusive as possible, children do just go ahead and do what they want to unless specifically told not to because they're not afraid of being a nuisance or being shouted at.

Yes, children get better the more playdates you take them on. It's a learning curve.

Well, there's two things going on here.

Firstly yes, it sounds like these children need more discipline, especially in other people's houses.

Secondly, you have had your first child and you are full of high ideals, which is nice. In eight years time you will look back on times when your parenting fell short, and also on times when your children behaved like little gobshites despite your best efforts. You will definitely have lower standards than you do now.

So while your house is still unbattered by your own child, try to have playdates elsewhere. In a few years time you will be much better able to control unruly kids and also less shocked by their frequently disappointing behaviour, because you will have had lots of practice

Also, many parents are frightened of upsetting their children by telling them off, it's not in the current trendy playbook. Eventually they will spend a lot of time moaning because some teacher has had the temerity to tell off theiir easily offended little sensitive flower and made him/her cry.