Re children in restaurant

[Arbesque]

Four of us booked a table in an expensive restaurant last night for 7.30.
About 10 minutes after we'd sat down a couple came in pushing a buggy and with 2 other children in tow. They were seated at the table beside us.
One child kept bashing his spoon off the table, another kept crawling along the wide windowsill so that he was right behind my head, and the baby was kept amused by the father playing peek a boo while she screamed excitedly. This went on and on.

We asked to be moved to another table. There were none available.Then the baby started crying loudly and the toddler got tired and cranky and joined the wailing.

We left without dessert and complained on the way out. They knocked the price of a bottle of wine off our bill.

AIBU to think expensive restaurants, charging a fortune, should have a policy for dealing with situations like this?

We paid a lot of money for a meal we couldn't enjoy.

so you think parents should only go to shit places to eat?

They should behave, as someone upthread said, according to the ambience of the place they are.

My DH is a chef in an extremely high end restaurant. If people show up in the evening with children, they are reminded that it is a quiet dining experience, and that children are expected to be at their table (or playing quietly under or right next to it not in the way of anyone walking around with hot food). They are not allowed to run around, and if they go to the toilet are to walk. Any patrons who disturb this (and this will include noisy adults) are ejected and will receive the bill for any food prepared for them (if not yet consumed it will be packed up for them to take home).

Lunchtimes are slightly more relaxed but still no running around, shouting or squealing.

When you eat there part of what you pay for is the beautiful surroundings and peace and quiet (the hum of normal conversation and some laughter is also fine. The people who eat there aren't twats). You pay to hear the sommelier explain about the wine, the waiters to explain the menu and to offer suggestions and listen to changes or adjustments you want. etc etc.

It really isn't too much to ask parents to teach their children to behave in accordance with their surroundings. (i also work for one of those places that sometimes invite prospective employees to dinner to see how their manners are - we are unapologetic about that)

I was on a work trip in Istanbul back in June and was having a long late meal with colleagues where a couple of families with young babies and toddlers walked out the restaurant before midnight. I've seen this in many Mediterranean countries and not just on holiday resorts where normal routine is out the window but in their cities too. I have a 3 yo and I never take him out to the restaurant and he only gets to experience restaurant culture if he travels with me which is sad but what I've noticed with my own child is that he is much more relaxed in restaurants where the staff and fellow diners are much more welcoming whereas in the UK, I think he feels the atmosphere is much more intense and acts up even if it's broad daylight.

I love seeing children in restaurants. I think attitudes like OP's are part of the reason why some kids don't know how to behave- if you only ever take children to grim "family friendly" places where they can eat nuggets and run around screaming, they grow up thinking that's what you do. Take them to nice restaurants, interact with them so that they're not bored or zombified on a screen, accept that small children occasionally make noise (as do loud businessmen drinking claret on expenses, hen parties, some Americans and all sorts of other people who eat in restaurants), and they will learn to behave appropriately.

Totally with you, OP. I've lost count of the number of meals I've had ruined by entitled parents failing to supervise their kids.

Wait! Are you actually suggesting that the OP takes the spoon from the child on the table next to them?

Are you honestly suggesting this?

I'm really not sure what to say to this.

But they weren’t even trying to teach appropriate behaviour, that’s the point. Bothering other diners and crawling over furniture is not appropriate behaviour, unless of course you’re using Lord of the Flies as a parenting manual.

If the parents are that oblivious then yes, it may be the only way to get through to them.

This training should take place at home, not in public.

Running, screaming, etc is never acceptable. Just because some establishments tolerate it doesn't mean it's not shitty, entitled parenting.

Wait! Are you actually suggesting that the OP takes the spoon from the child on the table next to them?

I think you meant to reply to me. I have done this. Asked the parents twice to make it stop. Asked the waiter who shrugged. Asked the owner who shrugged. Reached over and took the spoon off the child with a "that looks unsafe to me" and that was it. No big drama apart from idiot parenting. Why do you think that's so outrageous (or is it part of the bonkers attitudes in the UK that you are not allowed to even look at another person's child even when they are in potential danger?)

OP get over yourself. Paying a lot of money for a ‘expensive restaurant’ doesn’t make you better than other people

maybe your annoyed because your bubble got punctured that you are there at a fancy restaurant and you cannot stand that people with children and not who you deem desirable are also able to afford it so it’s not as posh as you like

That's a reach that even a brontosaurus couldn't make.

A toddler normally can't sit still and behave. They haven't reached that age of development yet and that's ok just don't inflict it on other people who have spent £££s on food. I take my DD aged 9 to expensive restaurants because she can sit at the table, has manners and will enjoy the food. We didn't start going to more upmarket places until she was around 6/7.

That would wind me right up if I'd gone out to get away from screaming , squealing kids and "baby talk". But I'm a single mum and it is mentally excruciating at times being in mum/kid world for hours on end, well into the night some nights.

Restaurants do adults only times for this reason I'm sure ,and I'd definitely one million percent be phoning and checking before I booked.

If you and your kids can behave themselves when dining out in an adult environment then crack on. If your children cant get through a meal without banging cutlery, climbing furniture, crawling across windowsills or screaming then perhaps choose another more child appropriate venue.
This 100%
No one says families with kids are not allowed to dine out. However I can’t imagine going out with my DD and allow her to crawl on the windowsill. When she couldn’t sit still we were looking at more child friendly options to dine out. There are ways to keep children entertained at the table but the problem is that you need to make an effort and some parents just don’t want to do this. They want a meal out with their children without any responsibility for their own children.

I'm not saying running and screaming are appropriate- quite the opposite. If you actually engage with children they don't run around screaming.

can report though that in DHs place the head waiter and the owner have said to parents when telling them not to let Tarquin run around that they have a disclaimer form for them to fill in so that there is no legal comeback when a tureen of oxtail soup lands on the child.

That usually gives them pause for thought.

Most people on Mumsnet have children of various ages/grandchildren who we like to take out for a meal. Equally many of us enjoy a different type of evening as a special treat. Often on these boards parents like an early bedtime for kids seeing, if they're lucky, the evenings a bit of down time. I'm with the op. I have always enjoyed family meals out but when the kids were little we chose family orientated places ...for example the pre 7.00 menu at an iItalian. Never a problem. I wouldn't dream of taking tinies to our favourite up market place. I would be too conscious of other diners, perhaps with children at home, maybe having a rare childfree but expensive evening out and I would be embarrassed to spoil it for them.
We have a large extended family and there are often tinies involved and are most welcome but if they are coming the venue is chosen accordingly. Toddlers are quietly shown how to behave in an environment used to children. In this way, by the time they are about 5 I would be confident to take them onto quieter, more sophisticated environments.
I think it is perfectly acceptable for expensive restaurants to have an age policy. Our favourite welcomes all ages for lunch but no children under 10 on the evenings. It is very popular and you need to book well in advance as plenty hands on loving parents like to get a babysitter and have a bit of grown up only time as a treat.

This is actually laughable"
"Oh Tarquin darling, please marry your behavior to the prevailing ambiance of this venue"
Ridiculous.

<sigh>

Another one with a complete lack of comprehension skills.

I assume if you have kids you are fairly familiar as to how they behave in certain settings and you can use that knowledge to make an informed decision as to whether a venue that has a largely adult customer base that are seeking a certain relaxed ambiance would be a suitable place or not to bring said children to.

No. Not in high end restaurants as OP stated. Family restaurants are fine for kids, but quiet high end restaurants are quite another matter - even abroad

You probably shouldn't leave your house if you honestly think that you have the right to so something like that. Who on earth do you think you are to actually think that you have the right to try to parent someone else's children?

A toddler normally can't sit still and behave.

This was not my experience at all. Took mine to all sorts of places as toddlers and they behaved beautifully, because they were used to it. Taking them to horrible places where all the kids are running riot basically trains them to run riot- best avoided.

Yeah, we’ve had very noisy children and loud hen parties, bloody annoying, we tend to go out mid week which gives you a better chance of moving to a quiet table.
In general since Covid restaurants are running at 2/3 capacity so less of a problem. Our own grandchildren and family (14) we always take to a place with a play area and ask for a seat close to it, the kids have a separate table and the older ones look after the younger ones. Works well stress free.

Well said.

And I'd remove the spoon, too. It takes a village...

By the way I always took mine to restaurants and they weren't allowed to disturb other customers, no iPads then so it was colouring books etc. we actually stopped eating at our nearest pub restaurant due to my DD's getting upset by the noisy boisterous kids.

<sigh>

Another one who sounds utterly miserable.....