Crying over French attitude to my autistic son

[Luckyloubytwo]

We are in France at the moment and having a mostly wonderful time. DS 9 has asd but is usually fairly easy going, quiet, and you wouldn't notice he was different to other children.

However, yesterday and today he has had a huge meltdown in public. When this happens in the UK it is difficult but people generally are understanding and mimd their own business. However, here it seems to bring the whole town to a standstill. People will just stop in their tracks and stare. Today we were in a busy area and it seemed to bring everyone to a halt. We all got very upset back at the car and I just can't stop crying.

I am just feeling so upset at the attitude of the French people towards our son.

Oh I see you have designated disabled areas???😱😳. What about in the rest of the region? When was the last time you shared a bus or a restaurant or a church with someone with a disability outside of the specialist areas you describe with professionals on tap?

@LemonDrop22 it does sound a bit alarming

@LemonDrop22 I mean nowhere here is going to obliterate a 500-year-old cobblestoned centre of a town in order to make it fully wheelchair accessible, so if their choice is between making sure there are communities nearby where people have their every need tended to or ignoring that they exist entirely, I know which one I think is better.

Lamalou-les-Bains is a thermal spa. It's a commercial venture. People go there with things like rheumatism, sciatica etc. hoping for a cure or just some relief.

You can lay down a suitable surface on cobbles but there are other disabilities beyond wheelchairs.

@5zeds You sound like you have a real problem with France, so all I can suggest is that you don't visit... Disabled people are around, they're not hidden away, they're not banished. They're in shops and restaurants and bars and clubs. But has this region (and probably plenty of others) made sure that there are areas where the very disabled have everything they need? Very easily accessible? On their doorstop, if they choose? With good links to other towns and villages? Yeah. I don't see it as bad personally so maybe just difference of opinion

So what happens to the disabled persons family and support network? Do they move to the 'disabled town' too?
This is not the good look you think it is.
Basically saying, if you want to get support or even just be able to get around outside your home you have to move house to live with the other disabled people.
Segregation
Ghetto

@gnilliwdog There is a thermal spa there, yeah. But there's also the whole town which is separate and (for France) disability friendly.

@ofwarren I'm not standing here saying "France have cracked it ladies and gentlemen, found the ultimate best solution" or anything. I'm talking about these things because a lot of people on this thread have basically said that you don't see any disabled people in France because they're all locked up in hospitals and not welcome in day to day society. I'm saying that's not true, not for the area I live in or for any other areas I've visited.

No, staring is not universally rude. As several French people have told you, it’s considered pretty normal in France.

What is rude are ignorant people who think the rest of the world needs to have the same morals as they are used to at home, and can’t get their head around the concept that when you are abroad it’s not your morals from home that matter.

@Wildflowercottage I was asking for your experience as you said you had lived their for sometime. I’m not sure why that’s made you so touchy. It’s an opportunity for you to tell us your experience not an aggression. I rarely stop in France now for a variety of reasons but I’m not sure why discussing facilities for and attitudes to disability means you should be telling me “all I can suggest is that you don't visit...”. Wow.

I went to a place called Lamalou-les-Bains a couple of weeks ago and had a drink on what you'd consider a "high street". About 90% of people walking past had disabilities and easily 70% of the shops etc in the whole town were targeted towards helping those people.

That's because it's a spa-town dedicated to helping people who visit with specific treatments for their physical and neurological differences, here's the blurb from a tourist site.

"Its renowned thermal waters have neurological and rheumatological benefits, as recognised by Doctor Charcot. Lamalou is one of the few spa resorts to have developed genuine expertise in chronic illnesses and neurological ailments. Its thermal baths with certified pools, functional treatment areas and dedicated neurology treatments all contribute to effective multidisciplinary care. The resort also has a thermal spa offering balneotherapy treatments, where you can relax and unwind."
www.france-voyage.com/tourism/lamalou-bains-1024.htm

Regarding staring, basic human common sense should tell one that it is rude. People shouldn't need to be told this, regardless of 'culture'. Waving it away and excusing it as 'just a cultural difference' is wrong. Not all cultures are equal or good. We don't say Female Genital Mutilation where a girl has her clitoris sliced off and the entrance to her vagina sewn up is ok because "that's just their culture". And as someone said, likewise with Spain and the bull-running. Some 'cultures' need to be stopped/eradicated. Even saying it is French culture, it is still wrong and French people need to make an effort to stop it.

As someone with Aspergers I find what I've read here about the treatment of people with disabilities, the disablist attitudes in France shocking and hurtful. I don't have meltdowns however I feel for anyone who has a disability. No one wants to be stared at, it makes you feel uncomfortable and embarrassed. And I feel that some people on here who live in France are being insular and calling people 'xenophobic' without any foundation or substance. It's like calling people like myself xenophobic against parts of Africa for practicing FGM. Some cultural practices need to be stopped, and it is true as many have said, and as a quick google search would show, that France has a real issue with staring at people who are different and also being very behind the rest of the first world on treatment of autistic people. This, is quite clear. It is quite obvious. It is not 'xenophobic' to point out a geographical fact.

FGM is considered pretty normal in parts of Africa. That doesn't make it right.

Staring IS universally rude, regardless of what a backward culture says. It is rude. It is wrong. It is humiliating, it is embarrassing. It is hurtful and it's intimidating.
NO ONE enjoys being stared at. NO ONE!

Surely things like accessible toilets and wheelchair friendly spaces should be everywhere?

@5zeds Your posts seemed to be becoming more and more touchy, I was only responding to that. And the suggestion of not visiting is a genuine one, as it genuinely sounds like you really don't like it. If I'm wrong and you'd like some recommendations then feel free to let me know, I have plenty :)

@BlankTimes I know, I've known people who have gone to the hospital and the thermals there. I was simply there a little while ago and I noticed that the vast majority of people had some sort of disability, it's an area that is known to be fantastic for elderly people and for anyone with a disability as they're so well set up there, due to the thermal spa.

No, it really is - in terms of human evolution and interaction, it is.

And I defy you to tell me anyone is completely comfortable being stared at, by one person, let alone several.

It is uncomfortable & stressful for the recipient for any number of natural, self evident reasons.

Don't bother replying because there will be zero agreement ... So it would be a complete waste of time.

@voldr Rural France is tricky, yes there are accessible toilets etc in most places, but definitely not everywhere (where I am). If you're in need of facilities like that then you're far better off somewhere else that's better equipped, but you'll still be able to get by over here, just not as easily.

This.

Just because something is culturally common, doesn't make it ok.

Ectrene racism was culturally common in developed countries until relatively recently. Just because 3 people from that country could have come on 1930s MN and said it was fine, would never make it ok.

Just lol at the "several french people have come on this thread and said staring is not rude and perfectly normal so ..... You're wrong!"

Frankly ni-one should really care what you think of other cultures. When I’m n the UK I don’t try to impose my cultural norms on the English, and if you are too rude or badly brought up to do the same when you travel then it’s probably better that you stay at home.

Fwiw of the French people I've met, I really can't imagine any of them stating at someone in difficulty (beyond the quick look anyone would give to establish what's going on, to see to see if anyone's in danger or if they could be of any help etc.) .... They would be good mannered and considerate and mature; and NOT STARE. So I have no idea wtf is going on with the proported French posters who are being quoted say staring is normal and harmless.

Frankly ni-one should really care what you think of other cultures

Why?

Oh and it's not the culture, because as I said I know plenty of French people who do not and would not stare.

LOL, I see France is being called a ‘backwards culture’ now. Mumsnet never fails to escalate into parody.

Exactly.