Please help. Separation, unmarried he owns house and we have kids

[mosel]

Posting here for traffic

We have two kids, we need to split, he owns the house. Do I have any rights to stay at the property? I am main cater and we've lived here for the childrens whole lives

Not necessarily

You’re right. It probably was a bit hurtful. But what I was referencing by it was the OP asking about his parental rights, and the insinuation that he was probably going to be unpleasant and make it very hard for a mother already in a precarious position.

In theory yes

But that gives an assumption of length of marriage, equity in the property and that he has 'other assets' (typical mumsnet view of the world that the big men have assets all over the place)

She should have made sure she bought finances to the situation, logged and audited and continued to work.

Was she insinuating that? Because she was apparently happy enough to stay in the house before she was told she'd no right to?
Sounds more like she's prepared to use her kids as some sort of pawn or bargaining tool, to me.

She should have made sure she bought finances to the situation, logged and audited and continued to work.

That last bit is so important particularly if you’re not married but generally too. Women need to be able to support themselves and not rely on men

You may be able to stay in the house - you need to speak to a solicitor. It also depends where you are.

I think you give some women or I should say some people far too much credit, some may well have brains, careers, assets but as we are regularly reminded on here quite a lot of people have none of those things and will continue to have none of those things because they don’t protect themselves by exercising their legal rights .

If I was a man I would not have children with somebody who wasnt an equal contributor. But plenty of them do and basically enjoy the fruits of these people’s labour for as long as it suits them and then the moment it doesn’t that’s the end of that. I’ve actually seen entirely that situation and gay relationships as well so this isn’t necessarily a male/female thing.
given that the legal protection of marriage was introduced to avoid entirely this situation, destitute women and children it’s actually ludicrous that people don’t exercise this right.

This is the sort of thing that does my blood pressure in

He may or may not allow that, they might not end up splitting up dependent on what the issues are and whether they want to work to overcome them

But legally she is not able to stay in the house if he doesnt want her to, why on earth would you think that she could? What do you think a solicitor is going to do?

This message makes me so uncomfortable. Your children are not property. You don’t have ‘rights’ to your children. You have responsibilities to them and if he is on the birth certificate then he has parental responsibility and just as much ‘rights’ to them as you.

If he owns the house then no you don’t have any claim on it. Been there done that, and it’s taken me a long time to get sorted and in a secure place financially. I would never put myself and my child in that position again without. But it’s not tit for tat, ‘I lose the house so you lose the kids’.

Without the security of marriage that should say.

Marriage is not the catch all solution to these situations.

The mentality that believes this is stuck in the past where somehow, someone, and sometime, I am going to be 'looked after' and protected because Im female

I dont understand this mentality, it comes from a position of externalised power, one of taking no responsiblity for your own decisions.

Take control, buy your own property/obtain your own rental, and make sure you have an income of your own.

@bellac11 some people will never own anything in their entire lives are you suggesting they shouldn’t have children ?

Then they can obtain their own rental as mentioned above.

Many wildly inaccurate statements on here.
Family Law solicitor here.
OP this is the law in England/Wales:

1. You have claims under Schedule 1 of the Children Act.

1. Those claims are to capital (for housing/furniture/car etc) and possibly to maintenance.

1. Whilst you can make a capital claim straight away, to make a maintenance claim you need a maximum CMS assessment.

1. You will get a max assessment if XP earns over £158k gross pa. If he doesn't but is sufficiently asset rich then if you pursue all the appeals then you will eventually get one.

You have to be determined - the process can take a long time. In my experience (personal as well as professional) the CMS is not fit for purpose.

1. Once you have the max CMS assessment the court has jurisdiction under Schedule 1 to deal with topping up what the CMS has awarded you. This can include some money for your own expenses while DC are young which we call "the carer's allowance").

1. Schedule 1 applications are not the preserve of the super wealthy but it is shocking how many family solicitors and barristers either don't know such claims exist, or how to pursue them properly. I practiced in London for 15 years on "big money" cases and in Wales for 13 years on a mix of small, medium and big money cases.

Not one solicitor round here that I have dealt with - even the ones who are considered top of their field - has any real knowledge of this area of the law. So make sure you use a solicitor and a barrister who does.

1. Now the house. You may have a claim to his property if you have made contributions to it. If you were engaged then you may have other types of claims as well or instead. These claims allow you to assert a right to remain in the house while you pursue them.

This area of the law is very subtle and fact-specific and you again need a solicitor with experience.

1. Under Schedule 1 you can make applications for interim capital and interim maintenance once you have that max assessment. Interim applications can include money for your legal fees.

So if you don't have rights to the house and therefore no right to remain living there you can apply for an interim order for eg rent/a deposit. Where there is a genuine claim and if I was advising someone in your XP's position I would advise him strongly against chucking you out and if he was determined I would tell him he had to assist in providing alternative accommodation (obviously this would depend on affordability).

1. What you will get from these claims obviously depends on his wealth and on the specific facts.

10. If he is on DCs birth certificates then he has equal rights and responsibilities (PR). The courts are moving towards 50/50 but again this is fact specific and depends on things like their ages, their wishes, his past involvement, his working hours. Many fathers will go for 50% to try and reduce their CMS liability. You can still try and claim and the CMS will look at things like not just how many nights they spend with each of you but days as well.

And low-level low paying roles could not be facilitated without childcare which costs more than the job pays. Given that when two adults are in the house together the government will not subsidise that childcare they will expect the man to chip in. Most will then start lamenting about how it’s not worth her working, given that it’s a pretty joyless existence working for minimum wage anyway it’s fairly understandable how she might agree with that sentiment.

so either way in your utopia she’s either dependent on blokey paying for his own kids or she doesn’t live with him and the government pays or quite simply poor people don’t have children.

I dont believe Ive referenced children once?

Having a job and ensuring financial independence is a basic for the majority of the population. There will be some that cant do either but that shouldnt be by choice.

The most important decision a woman with children ever makes is who the father of those children is.

Maybe women should stop settling for arseholes. Just a thought

Again,, you are talking about choices and using a victim mentality to justify poor choices

Dont want to work for NMW, not worth it = a choice.

What do you think the vast majority of people do, very few people are in high flying jobs, the majority of us are on bog standard incomes of average and make a choice about that.

Do you work OP? If so your union might provide legal advice, or you may be able to access some via EAP if your workplace has one.

You have no right to the house
And if he is on the birth certificate: of course he has right to the kids

@bellac11 of course their choices and if you go anywhere like Thailand or certain parts of Asia women will not have children with what we would describe as lowly men. Probably an argument for another day rather than derail in the OP’s thread and I’m absolutely thrilled to read about the children’s act, section 1. I had one of the top barristers in Manchester and you’re right he hadnt got a bloody clue about it.

I wonder if it’s too late to get a consent order torn up given he hasn’t actually paid any of it.

@TooTrusting apologies that question was for you if a consent order has been drawn up in a number of years have passed but he hasn’t actually paid out what’s written in the consent order and I had no knowledge of section one of the children’s act is it too late to tear it up and start again ?

That's how I read it, too.

Either way, it’ll probably be shit for the kids, as I originally said. Albeit somewhat unhelpfully.

There is a lot of poor advice on this thread, including this post. Titchy is correct. As he is their father, he does have a responsibility to ensure they are housed and the OP may have a claim to stay in the property under TOLATA and Schedule 1 of the Children Act, despite the fact it is his house.

@mosel Posting this on AIBU for traffic means you have a lot of posters who don't know the law piling on with poor advice. You would have been better posting in legal matters, but the important thing is that you need to see a solicitor as soon as possible. You are unlikely to have any claim to the equity in the house but, as there are children, you may have a claim that would allow you to stay there until they are older.