To refer myself to SS?

[LifeSucksBigTime]

I am honestly at breaking point with my 12 year old. I have raised another child who is now an adult, and is the sweetest, kindest girl you could meet. My youngest is the polar opposite, and honestly she makes my life a misery.

This could be a very long thread if I went into the whole, complicated story. But the bottom line is that I’m not coping anymore, mentally. She’s getting worse and worse with age (and she’s never been easy, from the word go).

I really need some help. I don’t know who to talk to, whether I should call SS, or the GP, or her school? I do love her but she doesn’t make it easy, she really is a spectacularly unpleasant individual.

Hi OP, that sounds like the crappest week ever and I am so sorry. I hope it is the low point and things will improve. If your mum is a calming influence I agree DD should stay there a while.

I'd forget school for the moment. It's not a safe place for her. At best all this might prod them to do better, I suppose. Or maybe it's time to look for a new school.

She’s coming home today, it would probably be good for her to be away a bit longer but my mum has never been the keenest granny and she really struggles with dd2 (I know the feeling), so she wouldn’t have her any longer.

I now have custody of both phones and I’ve put parental controls on them so that she has zero screen time so they are basically useless. I don’t think it’s a long term solution to not allow her a phone, it’s such a massive part of being a kid/teenager these days and it would really isolate her not to have one at all, but I need to monitor what she’s doing on there very closely, and have some strict parental controls, and a tracker on it.

No idea what to do about the school thing, one really disturbing thing I saw was a video she’d sent this ‘boy’ of a fight at her school involving a girl being thrown to the ground and then having her head stamped on repeatedly by another girl. She said she hadn’t seen the fight but it was a video that the pupils had been sharing around, when I asked her. I was like WTF, and she said “all schools have fights”. We live in a very ‘naice’ area and it’s supposed to be a small, caring, countryside school so I was pretty shocked by that. The HOY is phoning me today, I emailed her yesterday to explain what’s happened this weekend.

I’ve not long been awake and I’m lying here just sobbing, my mental health is in the gutter right now. My dc were at the age where I could go and meet up with a friend in the evening or whatever, but now I feel like dd2 needs constant supervision, like I’ve reverted to having a toddler again. So that will be another chunk of my sanity gone. I’m going to phone the GP today, not that they’ll be able to help, they never do. I have nothing in the tank right now.

I also spoke to a friend yesterday who used to do the same job as the lady who came out yesterday (she wasn’t a social worker, but some kind of crisis family support person). She said when kids run away like this, it’s never just the once, and for anything seriously helpful to happen they need to have done it 6/7 times for the police to start investigating possible county lines connections etc. That is terrifying. I am not coping.

Also if she’s not in school, what the hell am I going to do about work? I am the only one bringing money in and I can’t afford not to work, especially at the moment with the cost of everything. But I can’t leave her at home all day by herself.

It sounds like an unbearable nightmare. I'm at a loss to even know where to begin as it seems you're already doing absolutely everything you can and nothing is working. In fact I do wonder if now the behaviour has escalated this much that perhaps the horse isn't making any difference whatsoever with her behaviour and maybe now is the time to divert the time and money you are ploughing into that and getting nowhere into some other form of intervention? Would the money it's costing every month be able to secure some sort of private psychiatric help for both of you? Clearly the horse wasn't enough motivation for her not to run away and get herself into such a dangerous situation. Re the phone, at 12 years old I think you'd be right to restrict her use of it anyway. Particularly as she's demonstrated that she isn't making very safe decisions with contacts right now.

I really do feel for you , her feelings toward you won’t last forever however- she is at that age and point in time where she is discovering herself but of course in the wrong way…
Where is her dad in all of this? I’m glad your ex helped out maybe situation with her dad,
your ex et cetera Makes her feel like she’s un wanted So seeks the attention of an older boy? ? When my dad left home I went off the rails
I Don’t know but I what I do know is that you will get through this
I had a similar relationship with my parents when I was about that age when she’s older she will love and appreciate you and she does love you …she is just angry that she can’t get her Way and is worried what this boy is thinking of her .. Which is wrong ..some counselling I think will help her, Can be organised through the GP or school or even social services.
She does love you -you are her mum, She’s going through this right now but it doesn’t mean to say that she hates you.

Xxx

You don’t know that it’s county lines if it was then she would be out a lot of the time selling drugs and they will be in her bags and in her room, I work Criminal justice system and what you’re describing sounds more like a young girl who’s met an older boy type situation with possible SEN and psychological health difficulties than someone who is involved in running drugs across county lines

Have you read what op said about her dad? He kidnapped her and is a pshcho.

ah I didn’t read the bit about her dad I only read her first post and The latest one after that didn’t see that there were others ..however I’m still thinking that part of this issue might be her daughter reacting to these past traumatic Events and counselling may help
Children who go through traumatic events even as babies can still suffer from the consequences of years later …
my daughter was referred to CAMHS I was told that her attachment Issues were due to her being In hospital for long periods as a baby as she was premature I was a bit gobsmacked because I’m thinking how could a baby remember but apparently they can and trauma does put a ‘stamp’ on them

OP I just want to say that you are a fantastic mum you are caring and loving and things will get better , please Get as much help as possible to ride through this storm.. I don’t fret about things that haven’t been confirmed Ie running drugs

I have just retired but working at a local college that runs a specialist programme for young people who for various reasons are struggling with or have dropped out of school. Your daughter sounds a perfect candidate for this. Parents can apply direct and the students do not need a formal diagnosis. Don't know where you live but if you want more information, feel free to DM me.

I have thought about getting rid of the pony as that would free up a lot of time and money for me, in fact someone came to see her on Saturday who really wants her. But my worry is that I’m not sure what I could fill the massive void with, time wise. At the moment it’s the only thing dd has that gets her away from the phone and she’s had ponies since she was 2 years old, she doesn’t have any other hobbies and interests and it’s really hard to get autistic kids involved in any team/group things. I just don’t know what I’d do with her. On the one hand it would be a big weight off my shoulders, on the other hand I think new problems could be created. And although it’s a tiring ballache for me, it’s also quite therapeutic to be around horses. I am also looking after 2 other horses for friends this week, I had to stop crying, drag myself out of bed and go down to the yard this morning, and it was soothing to be around the horses and doing yard work. Otherwise I’d have stayed in bed crying. I’m back in bed crying now but at least I had a break from it. I don’t know. I feel like I shouldn’t make any rash decisions at the moment as I’m not thinking straight.

I don’t think there’s any ‘daddy issues’ going on here, dd truly believes this boy is her age. I don’t though, not having read the messages. I am doing my own detective work, a friend of a friend has kids at the school this boy supposedly goes to, so I am going to message her today and see if her kids know of this boy, and if he is at that school, how old he is. The police/SS will find out eventually but I can’t wait that long.

Re county lines, hopefully it’s not, and no dd has definitely not been involved in drug running. But if it is, they may have been trying to recruit her. None of the messages add up, there’s definitely something odd going on.

@frami I know of local colleges that do a similar thing, but I always thought it’s for kids who are year 9 or older? Dd is year 8 and only turned 12 in the summer. Not sure a college would be a good environment for her at her age.

I’ve messaged the GP and told them I’m having a mental health crisis. Hopefully will get a call back but knowing my local surgery it will probably be in about a fortnight.

In fairness as you've described, the behaviour has become more and more extreme and I do think the horse may well be counter productive now because even that hasn't been enough. You say the horse is something you can use as a threat but threats don't work unless you see them through to their conclusion. The void is the whole purpose and you fill it in ways you've not tried before. You will have time and money to look into therapeutic approaches which may be more productive and lead to more progress than empty threats she knows you aren't going to follow up on with the horse. Even after the situation with her meeting strangers to run away with, there doesn't seem to be a decisive consequence with the phone because you've now backed down on that a little by deciding it's not fair for her not to have some sort of activities with a phone. You know you can't trust her with that and there's no way you can watch what she uses it for every second. I wouldn't be letting her anywhere near a phone at least until I had established that if she even attempted to do something like that again she won't have another phone until she's old enough to buy her own.

I'm trying to picture at 12 years old living in a world where nothing has a consequence, anything I say or do I 'can't help' and I don't have to do anything I don't want to do. I'm not seeing a very positive picture. I genuinely am wondering how much of this truly can't be helped and how much she knows full well she can get away with because she won't face any consequence no matter how appalling her behaviour.

I just wonder if you could free up hours of time and hundreds of pounds trying completely different ways of getting her engaged in something more disciplined both mentally and physically. I understand a lot of the behaviour is out of her own control but from what you describe, what I am seeing is a 12 year old child getting far too much of her own way just to avoid meltdowns and even that isn't working anymore because she knows there's no consequence. The horse may well have been a good diversion but just because she's had them since she was 2 doesn't mean they are actually having the desired impact on her behaviour now.

My concern would be the horses may well be therapeutic for you but for her this just isn't sustainable and it isn't working. Yes it's hard getting autistic children into alternative interests, but it isn't impossible. I think you need to accept the way you are doing this currently is no longer working and to at least try to consider looking at other avenues which could be equally or more useful because to put it bluntly you've got nothing left to lose, this is as bad as it gets now. I think you already know where this is heading with a child meeting people she does not know. I get that routine is a serious challenge with children like this but I'm also seeing resistance in yourself to look at alternatives. It's possible that the methods and routines you're hanging onto which clearly aren't working anymore may well be a part of the problem. Maybe the horse just isn't giving her enough stimulation anymore and she needs a completely different challenge now. One that would fill the void.

It’s an interesting point about how much of her behaviour she can’t help, and as I explained from the start of my thread this is why it’s so challenging parenting her. I don’t know what’s what. There’s times she genuinely seems to be unable to control her emotions and actions, but then this week has been a prime example of how she can control them very well. In the run up to Saturday we had:

1. first asking for a sleepover at a friend from school’s house on Saturday night - “Layla”. I asked who Layla was as I’d never heard that name before. She said yes I had, she’s mentioned her loads of times. She hadn’t. I said that was ok, I would drop her over to the neighbouring village where Layla allegedly lives, but I’d come to the door and meet Layla’s mum as I didn’t know who they were (I was already suspicious that this was related to the boy she’d been talking to). A few hours later she told me she wouldn’t be going to Layla’s house after all, as she had family coming over. Aha I thought, rumbled.
2. At some point during the week she stole money from my purse to pay for bus/train fares, and planned her journey using public transport (no mean feat around here).
3. Convinced me to take her shopping on Friday which I now realise was to buy things she wanted to take to her ‘boyfriends’ house.
4. More lies on the day of her going missing, asking for a sleepover at her friend from primary’s house.
5. During the time she was missing, messaging my ex telling him she was going to stay at her boyfriends house because I’m so horrible and I shout at her all the time. This is a thing she does, she tells friends that she has terrible home life and makes shit up, eg she told another girl’s mum that her big sister tries to attack her with knives. It’s all bullshit but she likes to play the victim and try to get sympathy from people for things which just aren’t true.
6. No remorse for her actions at all, nothing from her even though I was crying all the way home from the police station. The only time she got emotional herself was when I took her phone away.

I hate to say it, but this is exactly what her father was like. That’s how he reeled me in to begin with, made up a load of awful events to get my sympathy. And he would pretend he was mentally out of control whilst being extremely manipulative and conniving. He literally destroyed my life (I had a book published about what he put me through!). But I was never worried about dd turning out the same, I thought as I’d fought in court (19 hearings which consumed 2.5 years of my life) to keep him completely away from her, she’d be free from that influence and not grow up to be anything like him. Yet here we are.

Oh and I have no intention of her having her phone back at the moment. But that’s not sustainable long term. Even the person from social services yesterday was trying to compromise with her yesterday, ie if she wants her phone back she needs to show me the messages. Suggesting that once dd had done that, she should get her phone back. There’s no fucking way she’s having it back until I know for sure who this person she’s been talking to is. And if it turns out to be innocent and he really is a 12 year old boy, then we can talk about the phone but it will be strictly rationed and monitored.

The other worry is that if she does run away again, with no phone there’s no hope of ever finding her. Thank god she was communicating with my ex (she’d blocked me).

Don't know what to say except stay strong and I really wish you the best x

Don't sell the pony.

As a mother of a 12-year-old who also rides every day, I can absolutely understand why you don't want to get rid of the horse. My daughter's behaviour and attitude are really bad a lot of the time (although not nearly as extreme as you describe) and getting rid of the horse would free up a huge amount of money and time for me, but I'm really scared how it could affect her mentally and our relationship. She would never forgive me I think. In fact, I was absolutely forced by her and her trainer into buying a second (competition) pony last week 😭the amount of fights we had about this were endless, but at the end of the day, if she wasn't riding she would be on her phone and it's the only thing she's truly passionate about.

Oh God. You know when you think you can’t possibly cope with any more stress, and then you get a load more stress. Honestly feel like my brain is going to implode with it all. So since I last posted:

dd2 is now out of education for the time being. She went back to school on the Wednesday last week, and on Thursday the HOY phoned me to say she was going to be suspended because she’d skived off a lesson, locked herself in a toilet and refused to come out. She didn’t get suspended in the end, but instead I was phoned the next day to say that she was going to be put in isolation again on the Monday and Tuesday. The HOY admitted that it has no affect on her and it does seem madness to keep trying the same thing, but they have no other way of punishing her and they can’t let her get away with it as then she’ll think it’s ok to keep doing it. After a long conversation with the HOY, I said I didn’t think the school was the right environment for her, her behaviour there and at home is just going from bad to worse, and she’s not learning anything, apart from how to be naughty. She didn’t put up much of a fight or offer any suggestions, so DD hasn’t been back since then, and I’m in the very long process of getting SENDIAS to help me with an EHCP. Honestly don’t really know what the solution is, but I know keeping her there wasn’t the right thing to do.

I’ve been monitoring her phone usage and checking regularly to see who she is talking to. Tonight when I checked, it turned out she’d met another boy on Snapchat who lives in wales, there were some very x rated conversations, and she was planning on going to wales (2.5 hours away) to see him next weekend. So basically exactly the same thing again, she has not taken on board at all how stupid and dangerous what she did was, and was attempting to do it all over again. I’ve now completely deleted all social media from her phone, I felt bad about doing that before as that’s how all of her friends (in real life) chat, and I thought with the umpteen lectures she’s had and me regularly checking maybe she could keep them, but tough shit, she’s blown it now. Tonight when I took her phone off her to check it she physically tried to fight me to get it back, and then said she was going, left the house, but came back about 2 minutes later when she realised she didn’t have money, or phone, or many clothes on and it’s 7 degrees outside. I had to lock myself in my bedroom to be able to look at the phone.

I had a talk with her after I’d been through the phone about how it’s normal for her to be interested in boys, and that’s fine, but the kind of things she’s talking about doing with them at her age is not fine, she needs to take her time to get to know someone etc etc. And how’s she’s a beautiful girl (she really is) and she could have her pick of boys, but she needs to choose carefully and not be pushed or rush into anything. At that she scoffed and said yeah I know (as in she knows she’s beautiful). I thought maybe it’s a self-confidence thing that is making her behave like this, but actually now I think it’s the opposite, she’s too confident and knows she’s very attractive and also thinks she can just behave exactly how she likes, at school and at home, like she’s above everyone else. And the highly sexualised behaviour is really concerning.

dd1 is also really not coping with college, she’s hardly going, when she does she doesn’t go to lessons and just cries, and then comes home and wails like an animal in her bedroom, and says about 100 times a day that she wants to die.

I have a social worker coming over on Thursday, which can’t come soon enough.

All of the stress has caused a massive flare up of my chronic fatigue and I’m dragging myself through life, forgetting things all the time, it’s like my brain is firing at 5% capacity at the moment. The doctor phoned me this week to check on me, apparently I phoned them last week in a right state and I have no recollection of that at all. I’m scared, for my own sanity, that dd2 is out of control and I can’t keep her safe, and that dd1’s mental health is plummeting, I know she will drop out of college soon and then god knows what she’ll do, she couldn’t cope with a job or anything.

Oh and also I have to take the pony to the vets on Wednesday, she’s developed various health issues which best case scenario will mean a huge vets bill, worst case scenario she will have to be put down which will be devastating, I’m really attached to her and losing her at the moment will be more than I can take.

To say there is no joy in life is an understatement.

Oh no OP. You sound at the end of your tether and it's not surprising. Could your mum come to stay for a bit?

The school is not allowed to just off roll your younger DD without offering an alternative. They are breaking the law. They are required to look into a managed move to an alternative provision. Maybe a PRU. For the moment, they are required to send work home, whether she does it or not. They should be in touch with social services themselves. Keep in touch with them daily by email if you can. Ask them to send work (you don't have to do it).

Are you on "Not Fine in School"? (Facebook group).

Your eldest is not coping and I think maybe it's best to just withdraw her for the moment. But I am not sure of the rules post 16 although I know 6th form can be funded for 3 years, so she could restart next September. Maybe in the New Year she could do some online courses. Look at InterHigh.

But in the meantime see if your mum can hold the fort for a bit.

Also can you get signed off sick from work? You can't do everything.

Hugs OP.

Do SS know about her experience in early life, the kidnapping etc? Has she ever received play therapy or anything?
You should absolutely get SS involved. It will clearly be that she's been damaged from that time. She needs professional support and so do you. I can't believe you've been left alone with this.

I’m so sorry OP for everything you are battling through to keep your kids safe. It’s chilling reading your posts as I know of someone going thorough very similar issues with her DD. You described your ex and how your DD reminds you of him in the same words as my friend did. When her DD plays up, I explain to my friend that a lot is out of the child’s control. I can see a lot similar issue coming up as her DD get older. Wishing you enormous strength and a time where you have stability in your life

Have the school acknowledged your daughter's SEN now?

@LifeSucksBigTime I work in a secondary school and have my own neurodiverse kids. I hope it makes you feel better if I say you are NOT the only parent going through almost this exact scenario. This is what I have gleaned from my work and also my own parenting:

• The internet is a toxic and dangerous place for vulnerable children. If you also consider that ASD/ADHD kids are around 5 years behind with emotional development, then you will see that it is also entirely inappropriate for them to have access to the internet.
• The content they will be viewing on tiktok/Snapchat etc will be encouraging them to do things like self harm, run away, hate parents etc. There was a recent case against Instagram following the death of a young girl.
• The same messages are then reinforced by their peers in school because everyone is looking at the same things online. It is impossible to get away from. Even if you delete apps from their phone, they can download them once out of the house and delete them when back in the house.
• Even social workers will advise to give phones back in the end so that children are "not isolated from their peers".

I have thought a lot about what I would do if I ended up in this situation with my dc. I know it sounds simplistic and idealistic but I honestly think I would pull my kids from school, get rid of all phones and devices, find a way to work and school from home and completely simplify my life, maybe move away too for a fresh start. I would do ANYTHING to remove my children from the toxic, depraved cesspit that society and the online world are currently offering them. Some kids can handle it, some kids cannot. Both your daughters are communicating very clearly that they cannot.

Sending you hugs and empathy. I really hope you can find a solution. You sound like a wonderful parent and this is NOT your fault.

@Phineyj my mum wouldn’t come and stay, she has said dd2 can go and stay for a couple of days here and there if I need a break but she’s never been a massively keen or hands on gran, and she struggles to cope with her for any longer than that. Will check out it that Facebook group, thanks. I can’t get signed off work, I’m self employed and really can’t afford not to work, and I’d be letting a lot of people down too.

@inappropriateraspberry the school recognise now that she has SEN, and put things in place to support her, but only just recently. The trouble is, she’s desperate not to be seen as different so she won’t accept the support, if she can’t cope in a lesson she’d rather misbehave or skive off and end up in isolation than go to the SEN support room. I think if they’d had the support in place last year before her behaviour got too out of hand, and made sure she was accessing the support whilst she was still vaguely pliable, it might not have come to this. The problem now is that (and this is something I studied in my degree) she has become part of the group of kids who have basically formed an anti-school subculture, and she can’t turn her behaviour around without losing face with them, which particularly due to her ASD and desire to fit in, she just won’t do. So being there is flogging a dead horse.

@Mahanii thank you, what a lovely post. Yes the family support worker basically bargained with DD that if she let me look through her phone, she’d be able to have it back, the day after she ran away. I wasn’t intending to let her have it back then, this deal was made without my permission or input. She can’t re download any apps as I’ve got the parental settings fixed so that she can’t. Funnily enough I had the exact same thought as you the other day, the only way I could really keep her safe is move somewhere really remote, like a Scottish island or something, and just remove the internet from her life. But I don’t think in reality that’s a feasible idea.