To refer myself to SS?

[LifeSucksBigTime]

I am honestly at breaking point with my 12 year old. I have raised another child who is now an adult, and is the sweetest, kindest girl you could meet. My youngest is the polar opposite, and honestly she makes my life a misery.

This could be a very long thread if I went into the whole, complicated story. But the bottom line is that I’m not coping anymore, mentally. She’s getting worse and worse with age (and she’s never been easy, from the word go).

I really need some help. I don’t know who to talk to, whether I should call SS, or the GP, or her school? I do love her but she doesn’t make it easy, she really is a spectacularly unpleasant individual.

Sorry repeated what everyone else has said. IPSEA and SOS SEN have templates for parents to make that application. I’m really sorry for the trauma you all went through in her early days. I wonder if EMDR would work with some of her trauma.

I can only speak for my own school, but we would absolutely want to know if your family life had become so difficult that you were considering referring yourself to Children's Services. We can't fix the problem, that's true, but we can support parents with advice and strategies, we have staff trained to run parenting courses and we can signpost you to services who could help. We would also look into assigning your DD a mentor or keyworker in school, someone she could build a relationship with and hopefully confide in to get to the bottom of what's causing these issues. Even if she is fine in school at the moment, whatever is causing the challenging behaviour is likely to interfere with her education in some way eventually.

I think those suggesting books need to properly reread the OP

Often a child will behave like this at home but pull it together at school.

Your DD doesn’t

even if you don’t involve the school, I am guessing that very soon they will be very heavily involved if same at school

She’s the same at school, it’s endless emails and phone calls from them, she skives lessons, misbehaves and disrupts the class when she does go, and if the teachers pull her up on her behaviour she just laughs at them and gives them a lot of verbal abuse. If they give her a detention she will just refuse to go, knowing full well they can’t physically make her.

this is heading towards expulsion.

she’s just finished year 7. No four school have given her some slack for first year of secondary school. If her behaviour isn’t addressed extensively with the school on board and heavily involved - I suspect she will be asked to leave at some point in the not too distant future

As a horse person with ASD, don’t take her horse away. When I was acting out as a teen, the threat of losing my pony was enough to trigger a spiral into a very difficult eating disorder. The One thing that I had control over and felt free with, and was not judged by and didn’t find difficult to be around, was going to be taken away and it broke me mentally. Even now, horses are my life line to manageable mental health and being able to function in a neurotypical world.

make her up the responsibility and hours of work with the horse. The more horse time I had, the better I did. I had to do 💯 of the care, 7 days a week. I’m very glad I did. Mum bought me what I needed, but if I broke something or failed to look after it, then I was responsible for replacing it.

but did you behave like this?

i don’t think the horse should be “taken away” but I do think that there should be consequences to her behaviour that involve, for example, the OP not taking her to the stables. She’s breaking possessions of her sister and mother, so why should her possession remain “untouched”?

I agree with this. There are avenues - and you already know what they are - which take you directly to sources of help. Schools don't have a 'hotline' to any of these - for example, school referrals to CAMHS are no more effective/faster than GP referrals.

I don’t think she’s got control over how she’s behaving. I don’t think the horse should be used as a punishment. The horse should be part of her therapy and help her build confidence and self-esteem.

I think the trauma she experienced as a baby will have had an enormous impact on her brain development. Do you have any SENSI practitioners where you live? I think you need to recognise that she has effectively been brain damaged due to trauma. Sadly that can mean she’s much more likely to go down a path of self-destruction, but hopefully you can become her safe place again. I wish I knew what to say that would help. I have a much younger sibling who experienced developmental trauma and I recognise so much of what you’re saying. My family have received very intensive SENSI therapy via SS and it’s really changed things for the better.

I agree with you, op, re: not taking away the horse. I also agree with pps that she could be given more responsibility with it.

The waiting list for CAMHS is huge but I think she needs a referral. I think school should be looking into it for you to be honest but in the absence of that support, by all means go to the GP re: CAMHS referral and apply for an EHCP.

You should not be dealing with this on your own. You and your daughter need support.

Some great help and ideas here. It sounds so hard. I’m on the other side as I’m the (now adult) child with ASD who finds it very hard controlling myself. I still do and I know I’m very hard to deal with. I love my parents very much but find it hard to show.

Talk to a professional about whether they think the following might help or make things worse (an excuse to be mean):

I found it comforting to know that I am not the only person that finds it very hard to manage feelings and it is or may be part of a disorder or disability. It calmed me a bit but it was as an adult. I then found others I can chat to online (which does have its own dangers).

That sounds so hard op, for you and for your darling dd.
It is highly likely she can’t help herself op. I would go to the GP and ask for their help, be honest and say you can no longer cope and are considering a ss self referral ( ask dd to wait outside) and LFT them step in and help.
Does your school have a counsellor? I think your dd badly needs some proper intervention as well as medical help. You can self refer for free counselling now too. It will be a wait but worth doing so now. If you call around the agencies many will do offer counselling for a much reduced fee.

I would stop using the horse as treat or punishment or a sacrifice, her riding and horse are perhaps the only real positive in her life and gives her respite from angry thoughts.

When she talks about her angry voice/thoughts do you ask about them? Anger and sadness/ fear are the same thing. I tried to stop seeing anger as a negative emotion, but just another emotion and it does work. So rather than react and become defensive I try to speak very calmly and more quietly instead or it blows up even more.

You both need help and support op. Can your dd look after her sister for a few hours once a week to help you? A self care night for you. Do you have any family or friends that can help? I would tell everyone the truth and get the support you badly need.

You are doing so well - you are parenting alone and paying for a horse for your dd. Be proud of all you have achieved so far - you will come through this op 💐💐💐

I would also remind yourself regularly that even if you have totally had enough - imagine how dd must be feeling living inside this tormented and angry world all of the time, where emotions are out of control and spiralling. At least you can step seat, she can not. It’s all inside of her. It must be an extremely scary place, and to be on the receiving end of everyone’s disapproval and always in trouble must be so painful at times. She has learnt to say she doesn’t care to protect herself.

When my dd explodes or melts down I feel sorry for her, the loss of control is far worse for her than it is for me. Now I react with compassion - I let her calm down and then I hold her in my arms for as long as she lets me. It’s got a lot better since she now knows I understand. Oh op it’s so hard when you get tired and exhausted and the school holidays are so long. Try being as affectionate and as loving as you can as much as you can. When she is rude just say ‘ I’ll be straight back when you are ready to speak to me nicely again’ and calmly leave. It’s never going to be easy, but aiming for manageable is the aim.

Wow. So basically turn your back on your child because they have a mental health problem?

This isn't a mental health problem - look at Jails / serial killers etc. can't be treated or cured. Cause a huge amount of damage to people around them

Just saying, do whatever you can to manage to adulthood then get away / have iron cast boundaries.

It's not the OP fault just a genetic malfunction but she has to protect herself. As a normal person she will be the one harmed, not the daughter

What an absolute load of horseshit. Stop watching Channel 5 crime docudramas, FFS.

Lots of good advice already.

I came to suggest reading about the impact of high cortisol levels in pregnancy (potentially caused by the trauma that you experienced) and the impact that it can have on a foetus.
This is a brief description but if you google there is a lot more research:

‘If babies are exposed to high levels of the stress hormone, cortisol, they are more likely to develop behavior problems and stress-related diseases later in life (Asok et al 2013; Luby et al 2013). In the worst case scenario, toxic stress may alter brain growth’

"The body keeps the score" about trauma and its effects - worth reading.
EDMR perhaps?
It's a ghastly intersection of trauma for both of you and now puberty.

I would never refer myself to SS if you paid me, unless you want them coming into your life to twist things, make unfounded accusations and fuck things up for you.

Definitely apply for an EHCP, you can do it direct to the local council as a parent. My DD has diagnosed ASD and ADHD and far fewer behaviour issues than you have described but even medicated she was struggling. The school said she didn't meet the threshold they were completely wrong. Don't accept their opinion. Get support from the SENDIASS team for your area. www.kids.org.uk/sendiass

We applied when DD was in y10 don't wait as long as we did. If she is better understood/ supported at school it will help her wellbeing. Don't delay asking for a diagnosis of ADHD either medication will help. You need much more support than this but understanding how her mind works / getting appropriate medication, is progress.

OP, I’m so sorry that things are so hard for both you and your DD. You’ve had lots of great advice already but one thing I did want to point out is the poster saying schools don’t have a direct route to CAMHS etc isn’t necessarily correct. DS has just finished year 11 and at the end of last year started having panic attacks at school (amongst other things). Our school has a named contact within our local CAHMS and they were able to see him within 6-8 weeks rather than the usual 1 year+ waiting list. When he was in year 7, he had immediate counselling sessions through school and their contact with Mind. School is definitely worth getting in touch with. Good luck.

Oh gosh OP, I really do feel for both you and your DD.

Do you ever speak to her about what happened when her father took her? I expect at that age she won't have a linear memory of what happened, and also trauma causes memories to be stored non-linearly, which is what causes the flashbacks and intrusive thoughts in PTSD. She may be experiencing memories from that time as unexplained, intrusive all-consuming images, sounds or feelings, which will be terrifying if she has no conscious knowledge of where they are coming from.

She may not be able to talk to you about it, and I think an urgent camhs referral is called for here. If you have the funds though I would look for a private therapist who specialises in developmental trauma. NOT JUST A COUNSELLOR. You need someone qualified.

My son was seen via camhs and we got into a routine where he'd see his therapist alone, then she would call me in for 5 mins at the end if there was something he wanted to say to me with support. We also had joint sessions about every 2 months which helped us communicate better.

I really wish both of you well - you sound like you are so devoted to her OP and you are doing absolutely your best. But you both need outside specialist help now, there is no shame in that and you both deserve a happy and calm home 💐

Let me guess

you didn’t refer yourself
but rather someone referred you?

Plenty of people with psychopathic traits do not go on to become criminals and serial killers. Many are CEOs, read into that what you will! There's lots of research that shows it can be managed - as a PP said, rewards rather than punishments are often the way to go. The OP clearly wants to help her DD and seems to be going the right way about it by seeking external support. Cutting her off would absolutely not help and should be a last resort.

I'm sorry you're struggling.

My son has ADHD, ASD traits but not enough to formally diagnosed, and I had a traumatic pregnancy with him (although no trauma as a child like your DD experienced.)

Firstly I agree with those saying to get applying for an EHCP. Also get the ball rolling for exploring a possible ADHD diagnosis- medication might be an option. Contact CAMHS, and look for local youth counselling services. CAMHS were of no use to us but I know others have had success. He did see a counsellor through a volunteer service which helped.

Something that really helped here was for me to remember that all behaviour is communication, and my son was communicating that he was/ is incredibly anxious. It just took me a while to notice because I'd always thought of anxiety as the way I feel it personally. Any lack of control for him triggers anxiety which causes meltdowns, shouting, violence etc. Consequences, punishments etc don't help, because it doesn't solve the trigger. Taking away his favourite things just made everything worse for the whole household and solved nothing. Part of all this has been about picking my battles- it's made a big difference to how often I find myself getting cross with him, which has improved his mood and self esteem.

I also spoke to my GP about my own anxiety and now take medication. I can handle potential stressful situations far better which makes things easier for DS too.