To refer myself to SS?

[LifeSucksBigTime]

I am honestly at breaking point with my 12 year old. I have raised another child who is now an adult, and is the sweetest, kindest girl you could meet. My youngest is the polar opposite, and honestly she makes my life a misery.

This could be a very long thread if I went into the whole, complicated story. But the bottom line is that I’m not coping anymore, mentally. She’s getting worse and worse with age (and she’s never been easy, from the word go).

I really need some help. I don’t know who to talk to, whether I should call SS, or the GP, or her school? I do love her but she doesn’t make it easy, she really is a spectacularly unpleasant individual.

Gosh my heart goes out to you and your daughters.

The kidnapping is horrendous. You will all be traumatised.

If there is any ways you can access EMDR therapy I would highly recommend it - for all of you.

I have experienced significant trauma and I have received brilliant support from doctors, psychologists and so on but it is the EMDR that was life changing.

Your daughter doesn’t need to know or understand what she endured, the therapist can work with what she presents.

@Beachdays44 my son was also diagnosed asd this year. Can you tell me how have you accessed all of the support you mention please?

Op, I can sympathise with you. My son also displays very difficult behaviour from which there is little respite. I don’t have much to add but as always there is good advice here.

Lots of lovely supportive and helpful replies.

As for the ones trying to shame the OP (“why have you let this go on for so long?” Oh my gosh, just have a word with yourself, the suggestion that the poor child is a psychopath) all I can say is that this is the internet and unfortunately can be accessed by the great unwashed 🙄

As for posters insisting you use the horse as a means of punishment, well it is clear that many people do not understand trauma, ASD, ADHD or even children.

I think it’s fantastic that you go to such lengths to provide her with two hours a day horse time. I think this is likely doing more good than anyone can imagine.

You are such a dedicated parent.

It’s really great to read in here that some people have had positive experiences with SS, with help from schools and so on.

Honestly, reach out to every service. x

OP - I so sympathise!!! I'm a single mother to a 12-year-old whose behaviour is (not as bad as you describe) but definitely horrid at times. And she also has a horse and rides every day, in addition to all the competitions/fun rides, which is costing me an absolute fortune that I don't have 😭Now her instructor is pushing me to get her ANOTHER horse, so she has two, whereas her behaviour is getting more selfish and entitled each day. But like you I don't want to take away horse riding, as at least she's passionate about something other than her phone

An update as I’m even further towards the end of my tether.

I haven’t had the time or space to try and access any help over the last couple of weeks, I had to do DD’s DLA renewal form which took every spare minute and bit of energy I had (anyone who has filled one of those in will know how draining they are).

But I have been been mulling over some suggestions on this thread and trying to put them into practice. Like starting from the position of assuming DD’s behaviour isn’t her fault/within her control, and that has made things generally better. I have lost my shit with her a few times but nowhere near as much as before. I am not a saint, and being endlessly kind and patient towards someone who is ungrateful, angry and rude pretty much all the time is a challenge, but honestly I’m trying.

So this week was back to school time. I asked her god knows how many times to get her uniform ready the night before. She told me she had…eventually. In the morning all good until she leaves it until the last second to get the bus (she leaves everything until the last possible second), and realises she can’t find her shoes. I had no idea where her shoes were, they’re Nike trainers which she wears all the time, and it ends up taking her 10 minutes to find them. By some miracle the bus was also 10 minutes late so she just managed to get it. I did get pretty cross with her as I had asked her and asked her to get everything ready the night before. So not off to a great start.

She got home from school and I told her she needs to get changed and we need to go to the horse. I was exhausted after a long day at work and just wanted to get the horse stuff done so I could go to bed (I have chronic fatigue). She then announces that she’s had nothing to eat all day at school except water, so wanted to eat first. This is an ongoing issue, she is too lazy (or maybe PDA?) to go and queue up for food in the canteen, so she just doesn’t eat at school. I have tried to make her take a packed lunch but she won’t because ‘no one does’, and she doesn’t want to be different. So she just doesn’t eat. Finally after 1.5 hours she has had enough to eat and has got herself ready. Cue big long lecture from me about how she needs to eat at school and get changed to go to the yard as soon as she gets back, for a myriad of reasons, mostly that the horse had been stood in its stable all day long and it’s not fair to leave it another 2 hours beyond when we should have gone.

Today was a smoother start. Off to school fine, I had work again. And then on the way home I get a call from her new maths teacher to say DD’s behaviour had been terrible. She insisted on moving seats 3 times, then finally when she was happy with where she was sat, rocked on her chair constantly despite being told to stop many times, whilst distracting the other kids. Some other pupils were complaining they couldn’t do their work because of her. At the end of the lesson the teacher collected their worksheets and DD’s was completely blank. She hadn’t even tried to do any work. I’d picked her up a McDonald’s on the way home so that we didn’t have the same issue as last night with food, and went to meet her at the bus to save a bit of time as I’d arranged with her friend’s mum that they’d ride together tonight, and she had a proper meltdown at me in the car about how I was so embarrassing for meeting her at the bus. She was furious with me. I brought up the phone call I’d just had and she was just screaming that she doesn’t care. And she really doesn’t.

I have asked for a meeting with the new head of SEN to explain what’s going on for me but honestly, I just feel completely done in. Yesterday was not really a proper school today, so here we are on the first proper day back, and I’ve already had a phone call about her behaviour. I feel like crying. There’s no let up, the school holidays are relentless but when she’s back at school it’s just as stressful.

I am so sorry to see your updates.

I really hope you will get some help.

Just one small thing. My child, also autistic, used to not take lunches to school as didn't like eating in front of others.

If you can get her to make a really nice chilled lunch, like a pasta salad and fruit, or just nice sandwiches. Then have these in the fridge and take them to the stables and eat on the way or once you are at the stables.

Preempt the predictable stresses with a solution, if you can.

I did a course called Family Links

www.familylinks.org.uk/what-we-do

I did it when child was 8 and found it very helpful. It is based around the Parenting Puzzle book.

www.amazon.co.uk/Parenting-Puzzle-Guide-Transforming-Family/dp/0954470907

I did find it very helpful. My younger child is adopted and does have some behavioural issues so I need to remind myself of all the good advice in there!

In terms of your chronic fatigue. I am so sorry, my child also has that.

We were told kefir would be helpful, I don't know for sure but child is getting better and does sometimes eat kefir or probiotic yoghurt.

Getting rid of the horses will solve most of these conflicts.

Is there any counselling or youth worker attached to the school, they should be able to make a referral if there isn't? I work with a lot of kids with similar early life trauma and it can often get really difficult in teenage years. I'd be tempted to suggest linking her in with a local youth service either focused around mental health or schools provision. Equine therapy would probably be right up her street but it can be expensive to access privately but it is something social services could possibly fund. I don't think involving social services is always a bad thing if you're both clearly struggling. There's certain things they can put in place for example helping you identify if there is anyone in your family or support network that could take her the odd weekend for a bit of respite to give you a break, they can link her in with specialist services for early life trauma work and fund things like the gym or therapy. Plus it gives you both someone to talk to when the going is rough. It sounds like you're at your wits end but you want to find a resolution so that's a good place to be approaching them from.

I would consider the likelihood of conduct disorder, from what you’ve written. There is a genetic component to ASPD, and the fact that her father has it means it’s very possible that she does too. ASPD is not diagnosed in children, but conduct disorder is. It is often a precursor to an adult diagnosis of ASPD.

A psychiatrist, rather than a psychologist, would be helpful. It isn’t a case of writing her off, but knowing what you’re dealing with.

I'm glad you've found some of our advice a bit helpful. Though to be fair I've had days when nothing at all works!

One other suggestion: you are all under a lot of stress and time pressure, especially you(!) and that in itself feeds the bad behaviour spiral. Unfortunately, any time when you are thinking "I just need you to do this or that right now / quickly / without any hassle" is very likely to be a trigger.

Especially if DD has had a bad day at school you know she is already fragile and likely to kick off. And her expectations were disrupted because you collected her when she was expecting to go with her friend. So you need to give her the simplest and calmest and most relaxing time after school that you possibly can. Otherwise yes, it's meltdown city.

So given how busy you are, seek opportunities to cut down on things the family has to do and things you have to get done and things that DD has to get done. She was struggling even to eat, and I get that the horses are important, but the responsibility of caring for a horse may be too much for her along with everything else. If so, would it be worth cutting down the number of times DD has to see the horses each week, or the amount of care and responsibility she is expected to have, so as to take the pressure off? Maybe this is a case of "less is more".

Oh, and google "spoon theory" if you haven't heard of it yet. It could explain a lot of your DD's behaviour, if you take into account that a lot of ordinary things (even eating!) cost her spoons, and that when she runs out of spoons is when she has the shutdowns and the meltdowns.

rocked on her chair constantly despite being told to stop many times, whilst distracting the other kids.

Rocking is self soothing behaviour and probably a sign of extreme stress. She should not just be "told to stop" she needs much better support in school.

I wonder if she needs more support at home as well. Rather than telling her to get her uniform ready, take 5 minutes to help her do it. It will be done quicker and you can help her understand what is required from her in future, maybe she is struggling to process what is needed to be done in one 'big' instruction. Breaking it down and helping her could make it easier in the long run - find your shoes, here's your shirt, get some trousers etc.
Maybe you're expecting too much from her and she's finding it hard to understand what you're asking/expecting of her. She is only 12/13 not a 16 yo.

yy to inappropriateraspberry's thoughts.

First day back at school is a huge transition for an ASC-ish child and very demanding. When you first said horses I wasn't imagining quite so much on her shoulders, I only imagined a riding lesson and maybe helping out at a stables a bit at the weekend. Having to rush out again to look after a horse at the end of the school day (even if she's not doing the real work!) is a big ask.

Just as you were shattered after a long day, by the time her day back at school finished DD probably was too. I would expect the first week of school to be really tough for her and I'd expect her to be difficult no matter what you did. DS used to fool me by flying through the first week and then letting rip a week or two later, when I'd thought everything was fine and settled but he'd run out of energy. Kids, eh!

Would a horse share arrangement take the pressure off both of you?

My other thought is that someone who screams at you really does care. School is overwhelming. Of course it’s easier for the teachers to call it bad behaviour when a pupil is difficult but it’s clear your DD has masses going on.

Please make the time to email the school, SS, your GP and anyone else you can think of to access support for you both.

I think tbh just being starving hungry would account for a lot. I'd be hangry myself if I fasted all day! Can she take her lunch to SEN or a resource base or something?

Thanks for updating us. Just wanted to say that I think you have made some real progress. Things sometimes get harder before they get better. We went through some truly awful behaviour, smashing things, throwing stuff around trying to break windows, self harm, screaming, not sleeping at all before our son had enough reserves of inner strength and energy to help himself to calm down.

Someone upstream mentioned the spoons theory. Definitely worth reading about. Your daughter (and probably you to some extent) are running on empty already and so everything is much much harder than it should be. Imagine being hungry all the time and wearing uncomfortable trousers which rubbed and then constantly having to speak to everyone in French all day whilst only having a few hours sleep. And then imagine someone asks you to get changed quickly. A perfectly reasonable request but on top of everything else, just too much. Be kind to yourself, celebrate every tiny victory, you made it through the summer holidays and things are moving in the right direction. Well done on the dla, they are awful.

I posted earlier up.

I really sympathise, I am a single mum to DD13 with ASD and ADHD.

I know you said her ADHD is suspected but you really should try and get that diagnosis done. ADHD Medication can stop the rocking and disruptive behaviour/constant fidget situation.

ASD side...getting back to school and all the noise will really get her going. They need to decompress and the horse riding probably does that for her. Mine has cereal and iPad time to decompress.

Can you pack snacks in her bag rather than an actual lunch? Mine will just not eat too if she doesn't like what's on offer for lunch. Things like the chickpea crisps are good.

I have the hygiene battle with mine at the moment, it's like living with Stig of the dump!

Lastly just try and remember she isn't in full control of the meltdown, and she is about 8 emotionally. This helps me with DD13 to remember this.

You really need to parent to the child, I have three and they are so different. All of them thrive on routine though - schedules and meal plans are always on the fridge and not much deviates from the plan. My children/me/DH do not have autism but we all like to know what's happening and we all, get a little stressed if we don't. I have the same conversation, occasionally multiple times for different children - what's for dinner, what are we doing tonight, etc.

I think keeping the horse is a good idea - but you explain at the start of the day what happens in a no-blame way. Treat each day as a new day. But you need to have consequences - if she doesn't behave no horse - but do not make it emotional.

You can parent your other daughter in a different way - lock her possessions away, but make sure she isn't seen as the golden child.

I read about a programme in america that treats children with anti-social personality disorders (I am absolutely not saying your daughter has this). But yes these kids didn’t respond to threats but were highly responsive to rewards. I think it’s worth a try while you are waiting for help.

Sorry haven’t been back to update - been feeling completely overwhelmed.

I’ve now lost count of the number of calls/emails about DD’s behaviour. I had a meeting with the new head of SEN on Thursday and she was really lovely. I started by saying that I was slightly concerned that when the head of year phoned me earlier that week to say that dd was going to placed in retracking (basically a detention) for a whole day the next day, she had no awareness that my dd was autistic. She’d been given this for truanting from a lesson the day before, as well as misbehaving in other lessons. I explained things to her and she said she had no idea that dd had SEN and she felt she wouldn’t cope with a whole
day in retracking so it would be broken down into two half days.

The head of SEN is going to start the long process of referral for ADHD. She said I would be welcome to apply for an EHCP myself but she said the school wouldn’t be applying for one, as there has to be repeated evidence of failure and she said we’re not at that point yet.

Meanwhile my older dd hasn’t been coping well with a transition to a new course at college, and has been in tears a lot and keeps saying she wants to die. She was on my bed curled up in a ball the other night just howling like an animal and honestly I felt like my brain was melting. Usually I only have one of them at the forefront causing stress for me but at the moment it’s both of them and there’s only one me.

DD2 is being put in retracking again on Tuesday. Her form tutor phoned to inform me of that yesterday and he sounds like a right dick. He also
didn’t seem to know that dd had SEN, and when I started talking about that he just cut in and said that he thinks kids are over diagnosed these days and that if they are given these labels they just live up to them 🤯. He’s been her form tutor for over a year, ffs, and had no idea she has SEN and obviously just has her earmarked as a naughty little shit (I’m not saying there’s not an element of that but I don’t think it’s the crux of her problems).

My instincts are saying to get her out of there. She just keeps being punished by being isolated but it has no effect whatsoever. But then what do I do with her? She has no EHCP and I have to work, she’d be sitting at home all day on tiktok by herself.

To add to all this I spoke to my eldest DD’s dad tonight. He has cancer and is refusing treatment. He sounded so vulnerable, he’s really tired and in pain and I’ve never heard him like that in the 20 years I’ve known him. Been crying since I spoke to him. We have a good friendship and he’s been a part of my life for half the time I’ve been alive. It’s scary to think that there’s a good chance he won’t be around too much longer, and the impact that will have on DD1, and then I’m completely on my own with both of them as DD2’s dad has been completely off the scene since he kidnapped her as a baby (ordered by the courts to have zero contact). And they’ve both got high needs and always will have. I can’t see it getting any better. It’s a lot.

Oh OP, this is all just too much ... you are carrying such a heavy load ...

Have you considered self referring to a Family Support Worker (Early Help)? We found ours brilliant and they helped with so many things when we were cracking. Especially at joining professionals up eg the school and making sure everyone was on same page.

Hi OP, I'm sorry this is happening. It sounds so tough.

As a teacher, however, I am disgusted at your younger DD's school. They are essentially bullying a child with additional needs. Yes they need to deal with problematic behaviour but it needs to be in a context of her SEN.

It is absolute nonsense that there has to be evidence of repeated failure to get an ECHP. ECHP's detail the child's needs, nor their academic level. My DD (younger) is doing well at school but I'm still thinking of applying for one so that when secondary comes, they can't at any point say they weren't told.

Keep as calm as possible and keep advocating for your DD. Take notes of everything, confirm everything by email.

Have you asked SOSSEN for help?

I'm sorry about your ex.