Sister threw DS out of the photo

[HellMc]

My DS (10) has always pulled silly faces in photos, he’s done it since he was a toddler. We tried getting him to stop but it’s like he can’t help himself so we just got on with it. We assumed if we didn’t make a fuss out of it he’s grow out of it but he didn’t. All of his school photos have silly faces etc and now we just laugh. The only photos we have of him not doing a silly face are the natural ones he didn’t know we were taking.

Anyway yesterday me, DS, sister, her kids and my other sisters son went on a day out a national heritage site. Sister wanted a group photo of all the kids so they all stood together in front of the ruins. Sister then said to DS “either stop pulling faces or stand over there out of the photo” 😱 it came as a shock as everyone was laughing at him initially and then she suddenly got mad. I told her I thought she was being a bit harsh and she said “sorry but I’ve been trying to take a nice photo of them all all day for mum and he’s ruined every one so far”.

I told DS to just this once not pull a face but he continued doing so so sister told him to get out of shot. She then took the photo of the other kids and said “there, finally mum will have a photo for her wall”.

so I said mum would want all the kids together so she said “actually, mum told me to take the pic without your ds if he insisted on pulling a face, she was annoyed with the last lot of photos I took her because he’d ruined them all.

I feel hurt, not just about my sister but also what my mum (his grandma!) has clearly been saying!!

AIBu to feel hurt at DS being excluded from a family photo that is destined for my mums wall??

Phobic people cry when their fear and anxiety becomes unbearable.

Oh please. Kids also cry because they are told off and don’t get their own way.

I'm 100% sure that was not the intended meaning.

I'm surprised at all the people who think a photo without your son is better than a photo with him making a silly face. Isn't that just part of who he is right now? Surely you'd want his nan to look back on the photo in years to come and laugh about it? I really don't get why people even care! Are you all the Royal Family? Maybe you want him to stop--that's fine, try all the methods (except making him cry). I think PPS are right, and if people don't laugh, or look bored, he'll eventually stop.

His aunt told him off but his mum was laughing at it.

I am sorry but your sister was right, and she gave him a warning first. She and your mum wanted a nice photo of them all together. Your DS is 10 now and old enough to understand.

You do need to have a talk with him about the fact that there is a time and a place for everything and that when it is important photos like school, passport, driving licence, jobs, and nice family shots when asked etc, that a normal face is needed.

People who continue to do things that they think are funny , after being told that they aren't, are just annoying. I know he is only 10, but he is old enough to start understanding.

It is a harsh lesson to learn, but he does need to learn that actions have consequences.

Not necessarily. Phobias do not always manifest themselves the same way in all people. You're more likely to bolt from a physical object of a phobia, eg a spider, and fall apart at something intangible, eg public speaking.

Reaching the age of 10 may be significant. I taught that age group for many years, and as the others mature, he may find himself left behind socially.
Clowning around was often a diversionary tactic, and with younger peers, a sure-fire way of raising a laugh and gaining approval and attention, at a time in their lives when children are subtly shifting from the family to the peer group.
It was interesting to see the class jester's antics becoming increasingly frantic as the tide of public approval slowly ebbed away. I still remember the stricken look on one lad's face when one of his classmates just asked him if he could shut up and let them get on with their work. When boring old Miss shows irritation, it's a result, part of the game. But when the Football Captain finds you tiresome......
You would be doing him a favour if you could set him straight tactfully; his classmates will phrase matters far less delicately.

Um no, you've made all that up. There's absolutely no indication of him getting frustrated or being "unable" to stop.

And he didn't even cry either of the times he was actually told off instead of simpered at. He just "looked like he might cry" according to his wet lettuce of a mother.

Good for your sister - sounds like it should have been done a long time ago!

Time to grow out of it then.

Good for your sister

He can help himself. But he likes the reaction, thinks it's funny, and likes that everyone else laughs at him too.

Except now he's come up against someone who doesn't indulge his attention seeking silliness. I feel sorry too for all the kids in his class who have their class pictures ruined by some gurning numpty whose mum thinks he's marvellous.

You and he understandably Do not like him being excluded from a group photo of grandchildren destined for your mother's wall. However if one person in a group photo pulls silly faces, inevitably it is is that one person in the group that everybody notices and focuses on. If there is a group photo for your mother's wall I don't think your mother or sister would want one where there is particularly attention focused on one child. You don't like him being excluded but the others will not like him being the main focus of attention in every photo.

The problem with your theory is that it completely ignores that he asks his mum to take photos of him. A phobic person wouldn't ask they would avoid as much as possible.

🤭

Except op says he also asks her to take photos of him. So your carefully manufactured theory doesn't really hold water.

There is clearly something deeper than "annoying prick" (what a lovely way to describe a child) if he would rather keep pulling faces even when it gets him thrown out of pictures he wants to be in and he knows he'll get into trouble for doing it, and he can't do it without weeping.

Whether a phobia or something else, I don't know, but he's obviously not doing it because he loves winding people up or doesn't care about the consequences or truly thinks it's funny. He's well behaved in general. Something is up.

"Every one came back silly so I promised him a toy if the next set came out properly."

This is literally the cliched Bad Parenting that makes badly behaved kids. "Mummy will buy you lots of treats if you keep being a cheeky little monkey, there's my little precious, I do find you most terribly amusing and I'm sure everyone else will be charmed as well."

Then you drop in that he's been booted out of school photos as well.

"DH ended up losing his shit and really shouted at him in the middle of Asda saying there will be no treats, no toys etc and if the next set of photos came out “stupid” there would be no holiday for him either and he would be staying with his grandmother."

Precisely. This is good parenting. It's a shame your DH doesn't do this more often and send the kid to his room to think about his awful behaviour.

His primary school are probably sick to death of it but his high school will have no tolerance at all. There are children there ready to learn. Even the most minor "messing about" will land your lad in isolation. The school won't be offering treats and toys; they'll just shut him away.

if he just had an awkward smile, I would say it was unfair to kick him out, but acting out is different.

It’s something that clearly causes him a great deal of stress. I don’t think you will have any luck getting therapy from the nhs for this issue, but it is the kind of thing CBT was built for. I would look into cbt approaches for dealing with anxiety when you try to work with him. If you go to therapy they will send you home with homework to do those kind of exercises with him yourself anyway. Think about how to get him comfortable with photos. Maybe let him take pictures of you and you take pictures of him. Give him some focusing techniques for distraction when he is having his photo taken.

I can't read any more posts in this thread without imagining OP's child like this

I heard he can't cancel the cheque either.

It's really interesting that this is a known thing. Year 7s have been a bit behind this year, unusually immature probably due to Covid delays, but the Year 8s were keen to be a bit more sensible and were quick to mock those who still acted 'babyish'.

Really? Despite the "strapping" so large and strong and gf rather than his mates? I remain dubious.

But you've laughed OP. So you need to stop laughing when he does it. Otherwise he'll continue to think he's being funny!

Sorry but YABU.

I'd have done the same as your sister.
Maybe it will be the trigger to help him not do it in future. Maybe you could practise at home with him?
It's an odd thing to do.