August babies shouldn't be allowed to move down a year

[SapphosRock]

My DD has a late August birthday, she is 6 nearly 7 and about to go into Year 3.

A friend in her class (let's call her Lucy) has an early August birthday but was allowed to move down a year. She is already 8.

No special needs, her mum just decided she would prefer her DD to be the oldest in the class rather than one of the youngest.

This has impacted my DD in a few ways. She is good at sports but being the youngest means she doesn't often win. On Sports Day Lucy came first in the year 2 running race. My DD came 4th so missed out on a medal.

Lucy had a sleepover for her 8th birthday and invited the girls in DD's class. Most went but I didn't think DD was ready for a sleepover as she's still only 6 so she missed out on a fun party.

Lucy got the biggest speaking part in the Christmas play as she is the most confident and articulate.

AIBU and precious to think Lucy should have been kept in the correct year group?

now we have prem babies being born at the end of April that can't defer so all it has done is just move who is the youngest.
April is summer born and therefore still allowed in theory.

the problem is we start school too early for a lot of children. Allowing flexibility over summer born start year allows the system to accommodate children who aren’t ready for school. It would be the right choice for every child, but is the right choice for a lot of them.

You realise it is justified with doctor's notes and other evidence? Parents REQUEST to hold their child back, it can be refused and sometimes is.

@MrsRobinsonsHandprints if someone was born in April then in all likelihood, they would not have been due in September. Thus they are still the same school year that they would have been in regardless. So it hasn't 'moved the youngest'.

You are being unreasonable. And you don't sound like you are being very nice about a little girl. Hopefully you're nicer in the flesh however.

My son is born late May. Until half way through Y7 he was always behind in sports and handwriting, spelling and maths. Excelled at reading. Now he's caught up those 9 months (counting from September, from the oldest born) and he is what he is. Because 9 months younger than his friends is a lot of time when you're little.

I always thought that if I had an August born I'd do the same. As you are feeling like this, I'm surprised you didn't look into it. It wasn't an option for my DC but it was highly publicised a few years ago now that the system was changing for summer borns.

Yes but overall Scottish children miss a year of education. A child born in England in Feb 2022 will finish school a year later than a Scottish child born in Feb 2022. The Scottish child has the disadvantage of 6 months at university at age 17 if they don't take a gap year. Reception is more akin to preschool than to P1 (or it should be if taught well).

I have 3 dc - their birthdays are in September, October and August. Youngest was due in September, but was a week early.

We missed out on the option to keep him back a year (it came in after he started school) and I would have definitely done it if it had been an option for him.

He is ok in the year he is in - he is tall and bright and most people wouldn't pick him out as the youngest - but he seemed very young when he started reception and he seems very young now, about to go into year 7. My September baby was 12 a week after starting secondary school - August baby still isn't 11.

Kids start school too young in this country.

My daughter was due in September. Came in August. Did I defer her? Damn right I did. I was a summerborn and struggled massively with the social side of school. Why would I disadvantage my daughter if I don't have to?

Compulsory school age is 5. The cut off for "summerborn" children being allowed to move down is April-August I believe. There is a lot of research showing the disadvantages faced by summerborn children. You had the choice to defer your daughter, you still could move her down. YABU.

I think if you can hold them back, you should also be able to push them forward. If not, the cut off should be the cut off and that's it.

My child is going to be the oldest in her year group by far. She misses the cut off by ONE DAY. This is a child who is more than ready for Reception, more so that many of the children who are only weeks older than her and moving up whilst she's still got another year at playgroup to go. She'll already be 5 when she starts Reception next year.

Mine is a second child, she regularly plays with children older than her very happily. She's already writing her name, ours and other words, doing simple sums, and blending letters to read simple words. She joins in with her older sisters spelling practice from school, asking me to make her her own version (only simple worlds like Bat, Cat, Mat etc). She can use the toilet, change her own clothes/shoes, do things like open a yoghurt independently, knows how to follow the routine at playgroup/sit on the carpet nicely/raise her hand for things etc and has no problem mixing with a range of children. She's very confident.

I can't move her forwards. She has another year at playgroup which she attends three days a week and she is going to be so frustrated this coming school year. She's cross because her friends are moving to reception without her and she's being left at playgroup with children some of whom are nearly a year younger than her which at this age is a big gap. Some of them are only just turning 3 and are still in nappies.

I'm not fussed from a childcare perspective either - I'm a SAHM so it means I get an extra year having some time to do nice things with her solo on the days she's at home which is a bonus. I'm not putting her into playgroup an extra day, she's going to start getting bored there as it is, as good as they are! So I've found a forest school to take her to (with me) one day a week to give her some extra things to do and more socialising opportunities.

Before I had a child who was as capable as her I'd have said I'd always prefer for mine to be the oldest in the year rather than the youngest. Now, if I had a choice - for her, not me - I'd send her to Reception in September if I could. She'd benefit far more from starting this year than spending another year at playgroup.

It's not on that it doesn't work both ways! When I was a child there were three intakes a year, my brother started school the January after he turned 5 at the Christmas. Worked better!

Technically it's not just August borns who can. do this. It's June and July borns too.

Yes, there are children in DS's class who turned 8 in June and July. And when it's not just one child but 5 in a classroom who are already 8 starting Y3, it changes the whole profile of the class.

Yes but overall Scottish children miss a year of education. A child born in England in Feb 2022 will finish school a year later than a Scottish child born in Feb 2022. The Scottish child has the disadvantage of 6 months at university at age 17 if they don't take a gap year. Reception is more akin to preschool than to P1 (or it should be if taught well).

You really can't compare the two systems as there is a 6 month mismatch in intakes. It also depends on how many parents of Jan/Feb kids take the deferral - in my area it's really high, about 80% i'd say.

I agree with you, but the problem lies not in parents doing this (or having the option to do it) but in our inflexible school system.

4 is ridiculously young to start school and, while some children will be ready, some won't. Allowing summer-born children to defer allows parents to keep their kids back if it's clear they won't cope and theoretically makes teachers' jobs easier... teachers have a hard enough time without having to deal with lots of young children who just aren't ready for school. As it is, many children who aren't deferred will be in this position anyway and everyone just has to hope that these children will catch up and won't be put off school and learning for life, which happens all too often and is a shockingly callous and unnecessary waste of these children's potential.

Allowing deferrals is a cheap way to (fail to) address the issue, which is the inflexible structure of early primary education. If reception was essentially an extra funded nursery year (and part-time attendance was possible), and then Y1 and Y2 were more play-based and less formal, then I suspect that a lot of the problem would disappear and all children could start in their correct year. But this would require a much greater level of staffing and resources than is currently available to schools, as well as a rethink of our targets-based education system.

I don’t think you’re being unreasonable. Lucy’s parents sound like the sort of middle class parents who defer their child so they can be top of the class the following year.

You can defer any summer borns, not just those born in August. I know a June baby who is deferred, also no special needs, just the family felt to be best for the child.

Then it'll just happen to July babies.

All the people saying there has to be a youngest in the year seem to be overlooking the fact that if it was spring born children they would have a good for months developing and maturing as opposed to August born children some of whom go into school at 4 and a few days.
In Ireland the cut off is April and this seems to work well.

*four

No thanks!

Will state this again for clarity.

We have had deferral in scotland for decades. It is SO NORMAL that it isn't worth remarking on. No comments about pushy middle class parents getting their kids ahead, or "keeping children back" or unfair advantages. It's normal, it's usual, it's not newsworthy.

England's attitudes will catch up eventually.

@ClocksGoingBackwards Other forms of "cheating" like private tutoring are allowed though. But I take your point.

Deferring my summer born child was the best decision we ever made as he would have been miserable and would have acted out had he started school at 4. However, I am very conscious that we and other families I know who deferred were lucky enough to afford to do it.

Anyone who is annoyed by the fact that he is older would be far more annoyed by how much extra intervention and attention he would have needed in class had he started primary when he was supposed to!

I'm a primary school teacher and a few years ago slt at my school decided to try something out and I was the guinea pig. So four year 1 classes in that year group, three of them were a typical mix but my class were all summer born children with June, July, August birthdays. This is what I found over that year...
Behaviour was worse than the other classes, especially the boys. Very immature.
They needed more play based learning activities (but then I think all year 1 children do)
By the end of the year though, their academic progress wasn't any different to the other year 1 classes.

In my experience, I think children with younger birthdays, can need more time to catch up in terms of social, personal and emotional development but academically, I personally haven't seen a significant correlation for summer borns. I've taught September children who struggle and August children who are at the top of the year group.

This is purely anecdotal.

What a WEIRD, classist assumption.

And also offensive AF - are working class people too dim to care about their child’s education? Because that’s all it’s about .

Dunno about you lot but when making decision about my DC I don’t consider the random kids I haven’t even met you who will be their peers

Parents not doctors are the best placed to decide for their children. Some Aug born children will be more rhan ready and others will not. I was undecided so deferred as i think she will be more able to handle peer pressure at high school.

I think flexibilty for August borns is correct. And you had the same option if speaking parts and sports medals are important to you.

Sounds like your dd is doing well even though she is the youngest and being with older children will challenge her so be a benefit in some ways too.

@KateRusby

Yes but overall Scottish children miss a year of education. A child born in England in Feb 2022 will finish school a year later than a Scottish child born in Feb 2022. The Scottish child has the disadvantage of 6 months at university at age 17 if they don't take a gap year. Reception is more akin to preschool than to P1 (or it should be if taught well).

2 years of pre-school
7 years of primary
6 years of secondary
4 years of university

Is totally fine with me.

Reception is a bit different to nursery. Nursery has no uniform for example and hours vary from 3 hours a day to full days depending on parental choice.

A February born (who didn't defer) can start university at age 17 years and 7 months - which could cramp their drinking options - but is that an educational disadvantage?

You need to ignore Lucy and focus only on your own DDs progression and happiness.
I can guarantee that one day you will look back on your preoccupation with who got the best part in the school play and who won a medal in a race, and wonder what you were thinking to feel so competitive about an 8 year old.
In the scheme of your DDs life and achievements this is absolutely nothing. If your DD is progressing age appropriately and is content, it's all good and Lucy is irrelevant. Don't let your DD pick up that you see it as a competition.

I get what you're saying OP and agree. We had this issue with DS2's class. He is May born, so one of the youngest anyway, but there were several kids who had been held back a year, which skewed the class age older and made him seem even younger than he is. One DC was born in May the previous year and the (private) school had allowed his parents to keep him back a year, so he was not only a full year older than my DS, he was more than a year older than the ones born in June, July and August.

@SapphosRock my second born is 31st august. By your reckoning he should have to compete with someone 12 months older than him (September 1st born) but I also can't hold him back by your thoughts too....