Page 39 | August babies shouldn't be allowed to move down a year

SapphosRock · 2022-08-17T06:53:34+00:00

My DD has a late August birthday, she is 6 nearly 7 and about to go into Year 3. A friend in her class (let's call her Lucy) has an early August birthday but was allowed to move down a year. She is already 8. No special needs, her mum just decided she would prefer her DD to be the oldest in the class rather than one of the youngest. This has impacted my DD in a few ways. She is good at sports but being the youngest means she doesn't often win. On Sports Day Lucy came first in the year 2 running race. My DD came 4th so missed out on a medal. Lucy had a sleepover for her 8th birthday and invited the girls in DD's class. Most went but I didn't think DD was ready for a sleepover as she's still only 6 so she missed out on a fun party. Lucy got the biggest speaking part in the Christmas play as she is the most confident and articulate. AIBU and precious to think Lucy should have been kept in the correct year group?

DespiteBeingSummerBorn · 21/08/2022 14:49

You have taught me something, @TheWayTheLightFalls!

I do now remember that I could have had Reception part-funded by the Early Years allowance (my DC went to independent schools), but I had never really thought about nurseries carrying on beyond pre-school, or about them being potentially easier for working parents!

Changechangychange · 21/08/2022 15:07

It would be interesting to know how European countries financially support families to keep their child at home or in pre-school care up to the age of 6+.

The ones I know about (Germany and Austria) have cheap or free preschool/KiTa (which is not all free play - the children learn to read, do numeracy exercises, and may have language/music/sports classes).

So it just isn’t accurate that they are sitting at home watching CBeebies until they are six and then go to school unable to read or write. KiTa is basically Reception.

This is some information about KiTas in Berlin - free but with extra charges (up to €90 per month) for activities like language tuition/foods

allaboutberlin.com/guides/how-to-find-a-kita-in-berlin

SlianRed · 21/08/2022 15:20

DespiteBeingSummerBorn · 21/08/2022 14:06

@DreamToNightmare Obviously one anecdote doesn't negate all the research, but no research is ever going to be perfect. On average, just-turned- 4-yo children who have two working parents (which the majority of them do) are better off at school for the simple reason that there's no other provision for them. They aren't going to learn anything sitting at home on their own while their parents are at work. Likewise, children who are brought up by parents who are themselves poorly educated and who have no interest in education are far better off at school when they've just turned four (and, probably, at nursery before that). But children who are young in their school year and who are brought up by an educated and intelligent SAHP would not particularly benefit from Reception - unless they were an only child with no other opportunities to socialise and play with other children. But you don't need to be a research scientist to work that one out.

Is this research more anecdotal evidence?

I mean the first part is obviously wrong, because there is other provision, but what is the rest of it based on?

What do they need to be learning at 4? Especially considering the vast amount of research that points to better outcomes for a later start to formal education? What's wrong with them being engaged in an activity or playing in the garden?

QueenWatevraWaNabi · 21/08/2022 16:42

On average, just-turned- 4-yo children who have two working parents (which the majority of them do) are better off at school for the simple reason that there's no other provision for them

Never thought to clarify that when we deferred DC we still sent him to nursery for a pre-school education rather than just leave him at home by himself all day 🙄

DreamToNightmare · 21/08/2022 17:22

DespiteBeingSummerBorn · 21/08/2022 14:06

@DreamToNightmare Obviously one anecdote doesn't negate all the research, but no research is ever going to be perfect. On average, just-turned- 4-yo children who have two working parents (which the majority of them do) are better off at school for the simple reason that there's no other provision for them. They aren't going to learn anything sitting at home on their own while their parents are at work. Likewise, children who are brought up by parents who are themselves poorly educated and who have no interest in education are far better off at school when they've just turned four (and, probably, at nursery before that). But children who are young in their school year and who are brought up by an educated and intelligent SAHP would not particularly benefit from Reception - unless they were an only child with no other opportunities to socialise and play with other children. But you don't need to be a research scientist to work that one out.

I imagine the 4 year olds who have two working parents are either with childminders or in pre-schools……I doubt many of them are just sitting home alone.

ancientgran · 21/08/2022 18:21

DreamToNightmare · 21/08/2022 17:22

I imagine the 4 year olds who have two working parents are either with childminders or in pre-schools……I doubt many of them are just sitting home alone.

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Yes just like the ones who are 5 at the beginning of September, they probably haven't been sat at home for a year either but if it was so important for them to start school a week or two after their 4th birthday why isn't that happening for the September born?

DreamToNightmare · 21/08/2022 18:42

ancientgran · 21/08/2022 18:21

Yes just like the ones who are 5 at the beginning of September, they probably haven't been sat at home for a year either but if it was so important for them to start school a week or two after their 4th birthday why isn't that happening for the September born?

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I don’t understand what you’re asking? Or what you mean?

ancientgran · 21/08/2022 18:51

DreamToNightmare · 21/08/2022 18:42

I don’t understand what you’re asking? Or what you mean?

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If it is so important that a just 4 year old starts school in the September after their 4th birthday because their birthday is the end of August why is it OK for September born children to not start till they are five or a few days short of 5.

Surely if it is important for one it must be important for the other.

If a just turned 4 year old is better off at school if their birthday is August then why isn't that true for a child who is 4 in September?

My kids went to school with twins who were prem and born on the 30th August. Not only did the school refuse to delay their start, they'd have lost their places, they put them in separate classes. They really should have been able to stay at home for a year or at least a couple of terms. Their mum didn't work so she was happy to have them home.

DreamToNightmare · 21/08/2022 18:55

If it is so important that a just 4 year old starts school in the September after their 4th birthday because their birthday is the end of August why is it OK for September born children to not start till they are five or a few days short of 5.

Who is saying it is important that children who turn 4 in August should start school in September?

I really apologise if I’m missing the point you are trying to make.

Are you saying you do or don’t agree with Summer Born deferrals?

DespiteBeingSummerBorn · 21/08/2022 19:16

As this is MN, various people have pounced on my comment about children sitting (not 'being sat', thank you) at home alone while their parents are at work.

For the hard of thinking, that was hyperbole.

There has to be a cut-off point somewhere in the school year. Parents can choose to do what they feel to be in the best interests of their children.

@SlianRed I agree with you that children don't need to be at school at just-turned-four.

I was fortunate in that there is more flexibility in the independent system for children to start school when parents choose. If children at state schools are forced to start school at just turned four, then that is a great shame.

ThinWomansBrain · 21/08/2022 19:33

It would sound a fairer system if it was an option that was offered to summer born children that had been in school for a year or two and were clearly struggling - but with thw system currently in place, you had the same opportunity to do what the other parents did.

ancientgran · 21/08/2022 19:57

DreamToNightmare · 21/08/2022 18:55

If it is so important that a just 4 year old starts school in the September after their 4th birthday because their birthday is the end of August why is it OK for September born children to not start till they are five or a few days short of 5.

Who is saying it is important that children who turn 4 in August should start school in September?

I really apologise if I’m missing the point you are trying to make.

Are you saying you do or don’t agree with Summer Born deferrals?

Comments like this On average, just-turned- 4-yo children who have two working parents (which the majority of them do) are better off at school for the simple reason that there's no other provision for them

If that is true for the 4 year old born in August why isn't it true for the 4 year old born in September, the 4 year old born in September is missing a year at school.

I think children are individuals and if you go to a Head and say my August born 4 year old isn't ready for school or my September born 4 year old is ready for school there should be flexibility.

I can't explain it any more.

DespiteBeingSummerBorn · 21/08/2022 22:27

@ancientgran I actually agree with you. I absolutely agree that children are individuals, and that when they start school should be dependent on their own needs/personalities. The slightly longer version of my story is that my youngest child wanted to start before the others, because she was desperate to do all the fun stuff that her siblings were doing. So she had a staggered start (as a compromise) and was full time by the time that she turned five. The school was absolutely brilliant, btw, and said that all our DC could start properly when we felt they were ready.

EsmeSusanOgg · 21/08/2022 23:03

DespiteBeingSummerBorn · 21/08/2022 19:16

As this is MN, various people have pounced on my comment about children sitting (not 'being sat', thank you) at home alone while their parents are at work.

For the hard of thinking, that was hyperbole.

There has to be a cut-off point somewhere in the school year. Parents can choose to do what they feel to be in the best interests of their children.

@SlianRed I agree with you that children don't need to be at school at just-turned-four.

I was fortunate in that there is more flexibility in the independent system for children to start school when parents choose. If children at state schools are forced to start school at just turned four, then that is a great shame.

We're in Wales. School is mandatory from the September after your 4th birthday. No option to start in the January term/ have half days for a term here. I believe it is different in England?

Binkybix · 22/08/2022 01:01

For the hard of thinking, that was hyperbole

Not really - it was just incorrect.

Tiani4 · 22/08/2022 03:26

Yanbu
I don't think you're being UR at all OP
I have two summer borns including one in late August
He's youngest in the year, it was always annoying when the bigger older children would dominate and to start to have children more than a year, nearly a year and a half older is proper unfair

Great for the older ones who get the advantage of up to 17 months head start/ extra maturity but it disproportionately disadvantages others that are younger and smaller

In any school year your child knows there are children up to a year younger or older than them depending on month they were born in, but to have more than that range?

Fair enough for children with big health issues but not a "just because..."

There should be criteria
In our school/ my time if your parent delayed your start to Year R you joined in Year 1 into the right year/ age group

Tiani4 · 22/08/2022 03:40

Parents with money pay for all sorts of things like tutors, to give their children an advantage at school

I could see this being another way to get your child an academic advantage taken up by those who have funds to cover nursery additional fees
(I'm top of the 15-30 funded hours) that extra year to delay start until child is 5.

I think children start school
Far too young, but then at least every child was in same boat,

Like OP I'd be perturbed my DCs were playing team sports against DCs over a year older, that they were running against other children the size of the year above, and that Polly Molly or Sebastian who is more than a year older is "best at maths / reading " in class because of course they are, they're over a year older & it's not a fair playing field.

Tiani4 · 22/08/2022 03:42

Sorry I meant to delay start of schooling until Sept after child is 5 ie. Go in to the year below the one they should have

SlianRed · 22/08/2022 08:19

Tiani4 · 22/08/2022 03:26

Yanbu
I don't think you're being UR at all OP
I have two summer borns including one in late August
He's youngest in the year, it was always annoying when the bigger older children would dominate and to start to have children more than a year, nearly a year and a half older is proper unfair

Great for the older ones who get the advantage of up to 17 months head start/ extra maturity but it disproportionately disadvantages others that are younger and smaller

In any school year your child knows there are children up to a year younger or older than them depending on month they were born in, but to have more than that range?

Fair enough for children with big health issues but not a "just because..."

There should be criteria
In our school/ my time if your parent delayed your start to Year R you joined in Year 1 into the right year/ age group

Did you know about delaying school start? Or consider it?

DespiteBeingSummerBorn · 22/08/2022 11:48

Binkybix · 22/08/2022 01:01

For the hard of thinking, that was hyperbole

Not really - it was just incorrect.

I can assure you that it was hyperbole. I would not be quite so stupid as to think that four-year-olds are left at home on their own while their parents are at work.

Dammitthisisshit · 22/08/2022 14:30

@EsmeSusanOgg Wales has the same rules as England on starting school (slightly different leaving but I can’t remember the difference offhand).
its compulsory for them to be in school at the start of the term after their 5th birthday. Ie start of the term in September for summer borns:

www.dewis.wales/learning-compulsory-education

Dammitthisisshit · 22/08/2022 14:33

To add, if a school are telling you they need to be in aged 4 they’re wrong and can be challenged.

a lot of schools don’t like part time reception or holding a place for an under 5 child as they say it’s disruptive; but they cannot legally force you to put an under 5 in school.