August babies shouldn't be allowed to move down a year

[SapphosRock]

My DD has a late August birthday, she is 6 nearly 7 and about to go into Year 3.

A friend in her class (let's call her Lucy) has an early August birthday but was allowed to move down a year. She is already 8.

No special needs, her mum just decided she would prefer her DD to be the oldest in the class rather than one of the youngest.

This has impacted my DD in a few ways. She is good at sports but being the youngest means she doesn't often win. On Sports Day Lucy came first in the year 2 running race. My DD came 4th so missed out on a medal.

Lucy had a sleepover for her 8th birthday and invited the girls in DD's class. Most went but I didn't think DD was ready for a sleepover as she's still only 6 so she missed out on a fun party.

Lucy got the biggest speaking part in the Christmas play as she is the most confident and articulate.

AIBU and precious to think Lucy should have been kept in the correct year group?

Why would they be “behind”?

they start school in R, go through school as normal like everyone else. Go to Uni/college/work when they finish school like everyone else.

They’re simply a month or two older than the average in that year group. That’s it.

Poor Lucy. I can't believe her parents didn't think about her cadet career.

This is a good point. Lots of smaller primary schools have mixed year group classes.

All the educational evidence is children learn better through play, and countries where children start formal schooling later ultimately do better. My daughters' school do child led free play through year 1 with the teacher and TA watching and making it a better learning experience. Your indoctrination in the highly abnormal UK culture (nearly nowhere else sends kids to learn to read and write a few days after their 4th birthday, because it doesn't benefit them, evidence shows children who learn to read and write at 7 overtake those who learned at 5 by the age of 9,and we do it even a year younger!) has blinkered you, unfortunately.

Scottish system lets parents choose, perhaps they should change it so all kids are older.

My 8 year old deferred May born had free learning every day right up until she was 7, thanks to her headteachers' courage to introduce the child led 'in the moment' learning, and is flying academically despite significant ADHD.

Suggest you acquaint yourself with the evidence

www.cam.ac.uk/research/discussion/school-starting-age-the-evidence#:~:text=Earlier%20this%20month%20the%20%22Too,for%20formal%20learning%20in%20schools.

For my DS who lacked confidence, cadets was far more valuable than school in many ways and the things he achieved and developed in his final months are what got him started in his career.

His final months would have been his final months regardless as this is age based rather than school year based. What point you think you're making her I don't know. What percentage of kids are even in cadets at that stage to be kicked out at 18? What relevance does when they started school have to that? I'm baffled.

But mostly my point is how does it work for school trips in year 12, if a child is already an adult and can't share with a child?

Upthread you said school trips were mostly done in year 11. So there's your answer.

Poor Lucy. I can't believe her parents didn't think about her cadet career.

😂

Lucy's parents have done what was best for their child. You could have put your child down a year if you wanted to. Surely there are some in the class with very early September birthdays who will be turning 8 as they start back at school? I know in DD's class there was one girl who turned 4 on the 30th of August and one in the same class who turned 5 on the 2nd of September. That can be a huge difference in terms of development at that age so I don't blame any August parents who put their child down a year.

Yes and then I corrected myself to year12. I.e. Lower 6th, the first year of the Alevel course. They're not doing those trips in year 11

I'm just interested in how it works. People will do what they think is best for their DC within what's allowed, but I don't know how schools will run trips in lower sixth

Allowing children to stay back a year seems the obvious answer but it has caused a lot of issues in Scotland where it has been the norm for perhaps 20 years.

I don’t know any Scottish teachers who would say deferral caused problems, in fact most of my teacher friends would both strongly support deferral and would favour raising CSA in Scotland which is something the government has been talking about recently.

And it’s not a middle class decision, most parents I know of January/February born kids defer their child’s school start.

This is a good point. Lots of smaller primary schools have mixed year group classes

My children's primary has composite classes in every year group. And its not a small school either.

So that means it ranges from P1/P2 composite class with the youngest 4.5 and the oldest 6.5 through to P6/P7 composite classes with youngest 9.5 and oldest 11.5.

Totally normal in Scotland.

The reason 3 and 4 year olds get 30 free hours a week is those are school hours. There is no additional expense to keeping at nursery compared to wraparound care at school.

They're still separated into age groups for competition and have academic targets that relate to their year group though.

I think the problem is there always needs to be a cut-off and someone always needs to be the youngest in class. I'm in Scotland and the school age is 5 which is OK but there is also the opportunity to defer school if the child's birthday is the January or Feb prior to the start of the school year in August.

I think it just causes problems to be honest. In my DS class almost a third are deferred entry and are almost year older than some of the children and this does mean that they are physically bigger and stronger, plus more confident, more able learners etc. It was particularly striking in early primary and I do think most of the deferred kids would've been fine in their actual year group but parents defer because it does give them educational and social advantages throughout their school life.

Honestly we don't know yet. We haven't got there yet, the first wave of summerborns who started at csa under this legislation is just starting secondary. I'm sure schools have ways of dealing with it. Children have occasionally been out of cohort for other reasons forever.

I'm just interested in how it works. People will do what they think is best for their DC within what's allowed, but I don't know how schools will run trips in lower sixth

That's really the schools issue to sort though, isn't it?

They would always have had to accommodate children turning 18 before others, children older than their year group for various reasons. I'm sure they'll find a way to cope with this.

The reason 3 and 4 year olds get 30 free hours a week is those are school hours. There is no additional expense to keeping at nursery compared to wraparound care at school.

Full time nursery fees were £800 p/m even with the the 30 free hours.

After school club is £250 p/m.

It's definitely more expensive to keep them in nursery.

They're still separated into age groups for competition and have academic targets that relate to their year group though

Yes they are separate for school sports day (which is about the only competition they have).

Academic targets are very broad e.g. targets for which most children will meet within a 2 to 3 year age band, and then again at different levels within that. Curriculum for Excellence focuses on the individual child. Its not done on year group.

If large numbers of summer borns defer doesn't that then disadvantage the next youngest children (who become the youngest in the class?) Where is the line?

Again, not a critism, just interested in how it works. My DC are older, but I do remember talking to the head at DS1's infant school (born May) before he started as I felt he was socially/ emotionally young for his age. She just said school will soon sort that out. I don't know if it did TBH. He always struggled with his peers to an extent

*but parents defer because it does give them educational and social advantages throughout their school life.….”

Where as you would prefer the children to be disadvantaged throughout their school life?

Lovely.

Starting school at CSA doesn’t give the child any more advantages, it just gives them the same opportunity to start school when they are are emotionally and socially ready that all the other children are afforded.

This very much depends on your nursery and its provisions. There are nurseries that will give 30 hours during term time with no further costs and others (like the one DD went to) which have much smaller ratios, multiple activities taught by external providers, meals and snacks provided so we would pay more even if only send for 30 hours over term time. The additional fees per month are similar to those you have quoted if sending 8am-6pm all year round after 30hrs are deducted

Are you jealous of a little girl? Actually your daughter has learned some massive things here, her emotional development of not winning a race and not being picked as the main part in a play would of really been educational. It’s hard to learn how to deal with them emotions of not always being first and picked, however resilience is a massive life skill! Well done to her, I assume you didn’t have that support and also need to learn this skill, fingers crossed it will come in time for you.
My daughter has autism and learning difficulties, she has hyper mobility and can barely run when at mainstream she never won a race actually she was last every time. I was the proudest parent she tried and had to deal with being last by miles. Never picked for a talking part in the school play because she couldn’t be understood, did I think “oh it’s so unfair other children could talk their kids shouldn’t be able to if mine can’t”. Honestly you need to get some real life problems. The problem isn’t with your daughter it’s you sadly. Your daughter may of not got the part any way, another child way of been in that class instead and won the race. There could be a day difference between that august born child and the September born child. Your post is childish and selfish, literally having a paddy because another child got picked. 🙄

parents defer because it does give them educational and social advantages throughout their school life.

Those bloody parents trying to give their children the best start in education, ffs they should be taken out and shot.

If large numbers of summer borns defer doesn't that then disadvantage the next youngest children (who become the youngest in the class?) Where is the line?

But it is not about age gaps as has been said about a hundred times on this thread.

Its about children being expected to start school mere/weeks days after their fourth birthday and how that can have long term negative effects on their schooling and character.

That’s the issue.

So even if the May born children do become the youngest in the class, they are still 4yr and 4/5 months old when they start school which is not the same as a child starting school one day after turning four.

Reaearch shows that starting school at just turned 4 can have negative consequences on the child and so that’s why parents can defer their child’s start until they legally have to be in school. It is not about age gaps.

I don't blame anyone for wanting to give their child advantages but what about the child in Scotland who is born on 1 March - they don't have any opportunities to defer. Why only Jan and Feb birthdays? Why shouldn't it be based on a professional assessment? And FWIW it is very much a middle class thing to do where I am.

The legislation states you can defer a child who isn’t 5 by the start of term, so a child who is 4 in March can defer.