To move us all in with my mum?

[DoingJustFine]

My lovely dad recently died, very unexpectedly. Mum (83, frail, forgetful) is now living alone in the huge family house.

I live literally round the corner with DH, and my two teenagers. I bought our house but we have horrible neighbours and I've wanted to move for a while. We couldn't afford it as DH is still on the mortgage with his ex and we'd have to pay loads of stamp duty. He's in the process of sorting this out but it's glacial.

I think the sensible thing is us to move in with my mum. She'd love it. I'd love it. She'll be safe, I can run the house and take care of everything.

DH isn't keen as my mum smokes and the house smells like cigarettes.

My sibling (lives miles away, very rich) isn't keen as I suspect they'd prefer the family house to be sold and the money split between us all.

Our Dad's ashes are going to be sprinkled in the garden (as he requested) so I hate the thought of another family trampling all over him.

AIBU to just move us in? Even until DH has sorted his mortgage issue, or mum needs a care home?

I think you're all grieving and making knee jerk reactions. It's too soon. Support your mum by popping in each day if possible or working from her house sounds like a good idea but don't take her independence away.

Whatever move she does next needs to be the right and final one.

Don't talk about doing anything until you've understood the will, wait for probate etc then sit down with your sibling (over zoom even if they're not local) and talk with your mum about coming up with a plan.

I don't think people, generally speaking, 'get' the idea of multi generational living.

And whenever there's an inheritance thrown into the mix, people get twitchy. They think you're on the the take. Whether that's your siblings or posters here.

What I'd do is: get to the bottom of the will and what it means.

Can your mum sell the house and have enough to buy another, smaller place? What happens with the trust element of the will?

If you move in, what happens to the trust?

If the house is sold, is that the point at which money is distributed between you and your siblings?

If you sold your house and your mum sold hers, could you look at buying a new place where she could love in an annex? Even if it meant building one? Or converting something?

I think you need some hard facts behind you before you make rash decisions, but fwiw, I'd want to move in too and help her out. Sounds like there's a lot to do before the house can be sold anyhow.

Sorry about your dad.

I'd be rather suspicious of your motives too.

Odd how all your options involve you moving into the "mansion".

"If we sell it". Yep, that's a big if.

Been there, and my SIL and her family are still in situ 3 years later. "While we're waiting for our new house", has morphed into "looking after daddy".

OP, your post is basically me but my mum died and we moved in with my Dad. I didn't really feel there was a choice at the time as he wasn't coping at all and there was no one else who could help, but it's been incredibly tough. We are working on getting our lives back but it's a long road. Good luck with whatever you decide - there's no right answer in a situation like this.

I wouldn't sell your house, rent it out. You do need probate. Also the land registry could be a red herring. Since the 60's in many areas it doesn't signify who owns or has an interest in the property, you need a traceable trail. Wills are the easiest way. Although deprivation of assets, last seven years, there are tax etc implications, which never go away and if your Mother loses capacity it would be a nightmare to sort out. I've gifted my DD my share in a house, unless done in the first two years, it isn't simple, as in you need a solicitor when they want to raise finance on it. I did the probate, but we have needed a solicitor because my DD wants to get a mortgage on it. Your DH should be getting himself off the mortgage and you moving in, even temporarily might give him the push. That could actually have implications if he died before that was done. Having been through complicated wills, early unexpected deaths, you need legal detanglement and wills.

I think you would be fixing two problems and replacing them with new problems. Your dh and sibling are bound to have issues with it or opinions at the very least. So it would give you new stress.

the working there sounds good while it all calms down.

Sorry but it seems more about wanting to get your hands on your mum’s house than actually doing it out of genuine care for her welfare. If you lived in a more desirable property would you be so keen about moving in to care for her?

I know of two families where the elderly surviving spouse moved in with their daughter and family post bereavement. Both were frail and not expected to live many years. They gained a new lease of life and lived until their mid 90s and over 100 respectively - over two decades of increasing caring although neither had dementia and both were relatively fit for their age when they had the care and support they needed. In both cases there was only a tiny property and no real wealth to argue over and the elderly person moved into the large family home of the daughter. The thing that struck me is your use of bold in the opening text of huge in relation to your mother’s home.

Have you thought about what would happen if you all moved in, then your mum decided she was happy with the set up and didn’t want to go into sheltered accommodation or a care home? What if she then broke her hip, had a stroke or developed dementia? It is hard enough getting care for your parents when they live alone, you try getting care from the NHS if the person lives with a household of adults. What would happen to your mum if you became disabled or predeceased her - would your DH step up as carer? All these issues are before you throw the trust in the mix, not to mention your sibling. If this is about you genuinely wanting to care for your mum, then maybe buy a bigger house and she can move in and pay a small amount towards an annex, with the rest of her wealth protected for her ongoing care and for your sibling in the trust.

Agree with pp, this sounds very much like you're wanting to get your hands on your mother's property, and dressing it up as a 'convenience' for everyone.

Your dh understandably doesn't want to live in a smoke filled house. It would be entirely unreasonable to expect him to live somewhere he's unhappy.

Your mother is keen to live in a warden-assisted, sheltered type of property so best thing would be for her to sell up and do that. The 'mansion' she's rolling around in is hers, not yours, so that's the obvious thing to do.

Your sibling can't help the fact she lives a hundred or more miles away. Sounds like you hold it against her simply because you stayed on the doorstep of your parents.

Your motivation for moving seems to be that you've got bad neighbours. I get that that can be stressful, but that's a separate issue from your mum, so don't use that as a convenient excuse to move your family somewhere your dh isn't happy with.

Finally although I can see this seems like the solution for you at the moment, it'll come back to bite you because you'll step out of the property market which is always a bad idea. Even though house prices are levelling off and may even drop a bit, property is always a good long term investment and it won't do you any favours. Particularly if you end up spending out on a property which isn't yours, decorating etc

That's the bottom line: the house belongs to your mother. When she passes, it will be part of her estate. It's not yours.

@DoingJustFine probate is not usually difficult. I did it for DH when MIL died. It’s detailed but not rocket science. So you could make that happen more quickly maybe. Smoking would be a no for me. But more important, whether relatives do nothing care-wise or not, it would be better to sell up and divide the proceeds etc. I think the issues with your DH not resolving things so you can move are what really needs sorting so you can move regardless of what happens with your Mum. Otherwise it’s almost enabling him not to sort things, if you provide some way round it. But I don’t think moving in with your Mum is the answer.

What a difficult situation. It's clear you're concerned about your Mum and frustrated by your own living situation so moving in seems an obvious solution - apart from the smoking !!

But you really need to clarify the terms of the trust, as you may not have the options you are contemplating. One common scenario - although I stress, it may not be the terms of yours - is that the house is held in trust, giving your mother a life time interest, but on her passing, it passes to the children, and the trustees (which will have been appointed by your Dad) are responsible for sorting out what happens, which will have been outlined in the terms of the trust.

A solicitor, who deals with trusts, will be able to explain the terms of your trust to you. I would prioritise this before exhausting yourself contemplating possible scenarios.

I don't think you sound at all grabby. You sound like you are grieving and worried and a bit lost.

Take some time. Work from there during the day to see your mum and help her settle. Get the will and probate sorted and take it from there.

Thank you all again for all your posts. Even reading the ones saying I sound grabby is useful, as it helps me see what I look like to my sibling (and forces me to do some soul searching).

It's not a mansion - just a big family house.

I really am all over the place st the moment. I don't know what to do. I just went to the hairdresser and cried while they washed my hair! It's all crap.

Sorry, that ended a bit bleakly!

We won't make any decisions till we've had the will deciphered, and taken mum to look at some different options (flats, retirement villages, etc) so she can make a more informed choice.

Thank you all again.

I'm sorry you're feeling so low. Hats off to you as well for not taking offence and appreciating how the situation looks from other perspectives.

The main issue here is that you're unhappy with your own living situation- so try to separate that from your mother's. You have bad neighbours and your dh is still disentangling himself from the financial situation with his ex. Both of which I can see are stresses- particularly the bad neighbour as there's no switching off from that.

But like others have said, you'd only be exchanging one difficult situation for another! At some point you would need to move out of your mother's house and if you've spent money on redecorating then that'll be even harder. It sounds like your mother is quite up for downsizing, going to a warden assisted place or similar so let her do that. I wouldn't step out of the housing market because in the longer term property is always the best investment. It just looked like as a 'quick fix' you could be tempted to all move into your mothers and then you'd have the issue of smoking - and don't underestimate that, I absolutely could not live in a house where someone smokes in every room. I think it could also feel difficult for your dh living in a house where essentially you have no say- because at the end of the day, it's your mothers name on the deeds, not yours. Then at some point, possibly years down the line, you'd be in the position of having to sell anyway, as your sister would be entitled to half the estate.

When the chips are down its always tempting to find a swift 'escape route' but this really isn't the answer. I would be looking to move house yourselves into your own space where you have control.

@everywoman682 good post.

And as an aside, I'm a smoker. Outside only. Even I couldn't tolerate smoking in the house.

It’s also all about how her husband hates smoking but no word on whether her mun Would even want to quit or live with someone who will judge her for smoking

yes smoking isn’t great, but she’s elderly, quite frail from all accounts and has people trying to move into her “mansion” so to be scolded for smoking seems really… ugh

First of all, I’m sorry you’ve lost your dad. And I don’t think you sound grabby, I understand that you’re the one who’s tasked with support/organisation/admin/help for your mum now that your dad isn’t here.

For now I think your idea to work from your mum’s is a really good one - you can be there daily to keep her company and help her adjust, make sure she has a good meal, get her set for the evening and then go home and see your husband and children. You’ll be able to keep an eye on how she’s getting on without it becoming another daily event/chore/demand on your time, your mind will be at ease, and you’ll not feel always on edge worrying about her. Maybe make a rule that you’ll be at home with your family at weekends, though - just to keep things from tipping too much.

For now I think your idea to work from your mum’s is a really good one

Thank you! It's taking up all my time otherwise. I've been found to mum's every day this week and my own life is falling behind a bit. It's hard fitting in mum, my kids, DH, then my own career, friends, interests...

I really miss Dad. He was amazing.

Thank you all again!

It’s also all about how her husband hates smoking but no word on whether her mun Would even want to quit

Thanks for your post, which I think I deciphered correctly.

No, mum would never quit smoking. But while I was there today I found EIGHT cigarette burns on the sofa blanket, plus six more on the carpet. I can't tell how old they are, but she hasn't had the blanket that long.

I've banned her from putting the ash tray on the sofa, for fear she's going to set herself on fire. It's terrifying.

But I'd better not move in and look after her, or anything, as you've all told me. Far better I let her burn to death.

Better she sells her huge house and moves into some sort of warden-assisted, sheltered accommodation, as she's said she's happy to do.

I think it's entirely unreasonable to expect the rest of your family to live in a house where the owner is smoking (a lot, it sounds like!) in every room. I wouldn't be able to put up with it: I don't blame your dh from feeling exactly the same. It could also put your family at risk too if she's this dangerous with discarded fags and ash. It's not like you can be there 24/7 - as you say, you have your own career and other stuff to get on with

"Mum actually fancies a warden-controlled flat."

There's your answer right there.

I couldn’t live with a smoker. I also could not live with my MIL.

I was with you until you said she smokes. No wag would I, my H or my daughter be living with a smoker.

Even moving in wouldn't stop the burn issue you can't be watching her every minute. Moving in would put you and your family at greater risk of passive smoking and potentially being in a house fire.

Have you checked her fire alarms lately?