To wonder why so many women put up with this shit

[Stylishkidintheriot]

www.theguardian.com/money/2022/aug/15/how-to-achieve-an-equal-split-of-household-chores-kate-mangino#comment-158160830

I don’t get it: I really don’t. Not in this day and age.

if a man isn’t pulling his weight, why the fuck would you stay in a relationship or have children with him?

It is absolutely possible to raise children in a happy home while meeting their needs and to have a career/work.

I dont see why we have to pretend its not.

It only is if the working person/people are supported to do so to the same level.

So men generally get completely supported to do so by their wives (it's rare for a reversal in the UK)

Women have variable levels of support.

We all know that.

Support isn't just childcare. If the home work isn't equal then it soon becomes untenable for a woman working full time. I'm well aware plenty of single mums manage it. But let's not pretend it isn't very hard for them. Why should a working mum with a partner with children have to take on an unequal load and be tired stressed and with less free time if not necessary. We all know this is the reality. Most of us can barely think of anyone this isn't the reality for if we're really honest. Daddy sharing pickups and making tea isn't 50/50. I don't buy loads of men doing equal. Never seen it. And I know a lot of women, families and work in an area that brings me into contact with more.

And of you go past time your career stalls. For most people in most careers. So disproportionately impacts women.

Ah I understand, I shall try not to be discouraged!

Yes really dont be, just see some posters for what they are.
Its bad practice on here to use the search to search other users names, but in some cases you really will get their number if you are new. You will see the same bile being regurgitated time and time again. So please just ignore them. Literally.

But less of thats, MN can be really helpful on the parenting board once your baby is here, they can give some great advice and they can be really supportive if there are things you are maybe a little unsure of or need reassurance on.

And thank you very much, we are really excited! Clearing out the spare room ready for a nursery 🤩

I still remember swearing we would be those people with everything sorted months before, yet there i was, about 34 weeks pregnant up ladders painting .

Part time

@Popeyeandolive

Well, that's kind of the point of the thread?

I didnt say loads of men were doing their share. They're clearly not.

They should be though.

Most families have both parents working.

Which means most families are meeting their kids needs while working

Yes but not meeting the needs of BOTH parents. That's THE point of the thread.

@Popeyeandolive

Its possible if both parents do an equal share.

Also THE point of the thread

@Topgub I think maybe I mustn’t have been speaking accurately. I can’t be bothered to go back and check exactly what I said as it’s pages ago… but to try and clarify - I only meant that I feel like what would traditionally be the “feminine” role is what suits me. And regarding other women I never meant to imply that they all want to be SAHMs… more that many women in general seem to fall into more feminine “people focussed” roles even looking at the workplace (nursing, teaching, daycare, medicine, People/HR teams etc). Now that’s not to say all women at all, but it’s just what I’ve seen in various statistics etc. I’m no expert though so I could be completely wrong (and if I am then fair enough I’m happy to be wrong)!

In my experience it doesn't happen overnight. When you both work and have few other responsibilities, things are fairly equal. In terms of relationships I've seen around me (and my own) the change starts when you have children. Over maternity leave in particular when the mum is off work so picks up most responsibilities around the house in the interests of 'fairness' and then once you return to work it's a real battle getting things in an equal setting again - especially if once you return to work you're part time so your partner becomes the one with the 'important job'.

My advice to anyone on maternity leave is start as you mean to go on in terms of division of household responsibilities.

Professions like medicine used to be male dominated and considered all masculine and sciencey. Now they are female dominated, they are nurturing and people focussed.

Being a vicar used to be a manly leadership thing, now loads of women do it, it's a nurturing thing..

@tiggergoesbounce i know! I’m such a procrastinator with big projects which is why we are going to at least try and get the room cleared before I get too round 😂 luckily the room was freshly painted a lovely neutral colour before we moved in, so thankfully I don’t have to do that (I always think I’m gonna like painting a room right up until I start and I get bored very quickly) but once the room is cleared all I need to do is fill it with baby furniture (and then provide the baby 😂)! And thanks again for your kind words!

@PewterHeart

Yeah, that's really not how you first put it across.

@Classicblunder yes I suppose there is a level of perspective shift that could taint the views of the profession. I think it’s great that there is a more nurturing expectation of medicine now rather than it being cold hearted though! So good change I think. But maybe if we look closer salt the fields of medicine we could find trends there, paediatrician vs oncology vs neurology perhaps? I’m not sure! Would be interesting though.

And the opposite with tec/it which were initially dominated/created by women and are now dominated by men

Women don't naturally fall into nurturing roles any more than men naturally fall into leadership roles.

They're funnelled into them

I apologise for that - I don’t know why I failed to speak my view accurately. I was tired and I have been emotional so probably not being clearheaded and thinking about the right words to use. Especially when these forums are so fast paced I feel I have to just get it all written and posted as fast as possible, so I’m not as careful with my word choice… Hopefully I’ve explained myself better now and you can forgive my past misspeaking… or not, it’s your prerogative!

Unless you're in an arranged marriage, it's not just luck and lottery. I mean sure there's some luck involved that you don't stumble on a narcissistic sociopath who can deceive you until it's too late. But in most cases, people show you who they are, we just don't want to believe it or think they will change or that it's not such a big deal.

Correct me if I am wrong.

Interestingly USSR had more female doctors than male ones. Personal anecdote, about 2/3 of doctors I encountered in my life in former satelite country were women. Even more interestingly! It still didn't mean that men weren't considered better and deserving more respect🙄

@PewterHeart

The trends we find in medicine are the same as the trends we find elsewhere.

Despite more female medical students there are many maby more male consultants

And despite nursing being a majority female workforce, there are many many more male managers

You'd probably argue that's natural because men are better equipped to take on leadership roles and really, women are all just wishing they were at home doing the washing.

I'd argue its because our society is deeply sexist and women need to fight back.

I’m not going to respond to you if you’re going to continue to completely twist my view points and put words in my mouth that I have not and would never say, just to be dramatic and give more weight to your arguments. Especially when I’ve taken the time to try and re-explain myself and show that’s not my viewpoint in the slightest. I’m not interested in the straw man argument.

@PewterHeart

I only have what you've written to go on.

Most people dont go from women just naturally want to be sahms and men don't to 'radical feminist' over night.

If you dont actually think what you first posted then fair enough.

If you do think it, then stick to your guns.

Who cares what anyone else thinks?

DP does a share of the chores, e.g. washing up, sometimes washing the kids clothes and cooking the kids dinner. The problem is he has an ingrained belief that because he does this he's the perfect husband and I should be grateful. Even though he never cooks my dinner and the kids frequently only want his dinner because he mocks the vegetarian food I eat, he still moans that he has to do 'all' the cooking (I have and continue to cook some meat for the kids so I don't force them to be veggie).

Forget the fact that we both work full time and he has school holidays off work whereas I have the standard 25 days + bank holidays. I do the hoovering, wash the kids, change the sheets, make sure they are fed, pick them up from their activities and plan every single family activity including childcare and holidays.

It seems that even men do a share or close to 50% of the housekeeping are viewed as amazing where any woman doing less than 75% is seen as slacking off. I think it's a generational thing that will hopefully improve over the next few generations.

TopGub,
Err... no.
To paraphrase:
In the post you were initially referencing, (in which I mention feminists precisely once), I'm starting off saying I wish people contributing on the thread would refrain from saying that they "don't get" why women remain in unsupportive relationships.
I then suggest that we do know why, "we" meaning contributors on the thread, and that it is disingenuous to suggest one is "baffled".
I go on to suggest that feminists in particular could do with not "acting astonished", as I would expect feminists, like myself, to have an awareness of the issues touching women's lives.
I'm not admonishing myself as I am not in the group rolling my eyes at vulnerable women, but am directing this comment to contributors who appear to espouse feminist rhetoric, yet are less than compassionate toward the women this thread is discussing.
Any clearer?

@EveSix

Much

I think the confusion arose from the lack of 'feminists' acting as described on the thread

It seems that even men do a share or close to 50% of the housekeeping are viewed as amazing where any woman doing less than 75% is seen as slacking off.

Oh very much so. DH is always told what a great involved dad he is. Does he do more than me? Of course not. Am I ever told what a great involved mum I am? Ha.