Man stalking woman, excused by saying he must be autistic..

[AutismIsStigmatised]

I came across this video on TikTok today, I'll post the link below but in summary an unknown man posed as an amazon delivery person to get access to a block of flats this woman lives in. He was behaving strangely and wanted to give her a 'gift' which was some sort of cup / candle holder. She confronted him and he left, then came back up again, left again then came back up a third time with his hood up as though he was about to do something sinister. Very bloody creepy.

vm.tiktok.com/ZMNsQfG2W/

The comments are littered with people saying that he's 'clearly autistic'

Take a look and tell me what you think but as the parent of an autistic boy (and wife of an autistic adult) it really upsets me when people assume scary/criminal behaviour is due to autism. I know many people with autism and not one has ever behaved like that..

To sexually assault someone, you need to be in control of your actions, don't you think?

You accused posters of ableism and by your logic this would also be ableist because unfortunately men with dementia often exhibit verbal and physical sexually inappropriate behaviour which includes touching aka sexual assault.

They aren't 'in control' of their actions as such, so would be highly unlikely to be prosecuted.

That doesn't mean that the woman they assaulted was any less assaulted or that her experience was any less traumatic.

Intent (or absence of intent) doesn't change impact. This is what you don't seem to be comprehending as you're assuming people are being ableist.

He clearly doesn't need a carer so is an entirely different case to anything I've talked about.

So, in your view, autistic people aren’t in control of their actions so they don’t need to take responsibility for those actions?

Bu that reckoning, the man mentioned who raped his children didn’t k ow what he was doing. So it’s ok, right, and he’s not a sex offender?

You called people ableist, said they lack empathy and implied they think disabled people have less value than people who aren't disabled. People have responded to your points. It's not a pile on, it's people disagreeing with you.

I’m sorry for your son however if it is this severe, he would be very unlikely to go out and about on his own would he?

He doesn’t get a free pass to do this to other people though, and if he ever does it as an adult then it would be perfectly reasonable for the victim or another person to ensure that he wasn’t able to continue doing so.

To be honest, even if he’s a child a parent of a victim would be entitled to be extremely forceful in a stopping any assault that was happening. No parent is going to pause to get an in-depth insight into your son’s mental condition when they have the option to take the threat away.

In fairness if someone is so profoundly disabled they cannot control themselves from abusing and assaulting others, they need intensive care. This may mean they need two full time carers who carry out detailed risk assessments before they are supported to access public places where they might interact with the public. It might mean using a single cubicle disabled changing room, with two carers so that they are never ever allowed to interact with and abuse members of the public. That’s what needs to happen if that person doesn’t have the capacity to not assault people in a public space.

That doesn't mean that the woman they assaulted was any less assaulted or that her experience was any less traumatic.

For the millionth time, I never said otherwise.

It's mildly traumatic when my child physically hurts me every day but i understand enough to know it's literally beyond his control, he has no concept of upsetting people.

Yes, quite. So arresting them is gonna do nothing except traumatise them too.

How the fuck do you think teaching someone with barely any understanding of anything is going to work?

Then maybe they shouldn't be out in public alone or with only one cater. They don't get to do these things to people and it be okay because they're autistic.

I didn’t suggest arresting them. But it does need to be reported, because that person needs to be supervised more closely, and not allowed to sexually abuse women in public as he pleases. Ignoring it wouldn’t help either - the police aren’t just thugs for arresting and frightening people. They’re there to protect us, the public. Reporting incidents to the police helps it to be moved on to other services and highlights problems. If someone sexually assaults you in a public place, notifying the police is the right thing to do.

I have a feeling there is intentional derail and gpading to get someone say something what would get the thread shut down, if I am honest

That's true, I'd forgotten that. She is what could be described as 'white trash,' and she was frustrated by her marriage, and lonely. I remember reading once that there was a reason that Steinbeck didn't name her, but I can't remember exactly what it was. Please remind me if anyone knows.

Oh hell no. Sexual assault is an action and it doesn't matter the intent/control of the person committing it. The victim has experienced sexual assault regardless how the person committing it feels about it or how much they are 'in control'. That person has still committed assault. I can't tell you the amount of rapists who say, "But I didn't do anything wrong." or "I was drunk, so it doesn't count."

You need to see that bad behavior exists regardless of intent. Also, you could very well be at risk yourself. Please consider accepting that you could be seriously harmed or killed in the future when your son is stronger. You're not a bad mother if you take care of yourself.

abcnews.go.com/US/AutismNews/story?id=6848289&page=1

That’s very sad, but unfortunately if there’s no way to improve things as he ages then he’s never going to be allowed out into society.

The reason that people are getting exasperated with you is that you seem to be implying that others must make some sort of accommodation or acceptance that they should put up with harassment or attacks without the normal legal protections if the perpetrator has mental health issues.

That’s the wrong way round. What actually needs to happen is that society removes the normal rights of a person if they are not capable of being around other people without a serious risk of attacking them.

How on earth can you not see that a person who requires more than one carer is vulnerable??

Disclaimer (again): no, this doesn't mean the woman is not vulnerable and her feelings not valid.

Precisely!

If a person with a disability is not safe to be around the public alone, they must have a competent carer or two. Not have the behaviour excused because “they like breasts” and it’s normal for them to grab a woman as its part of their autistic behaviour.

Yes, they would.

You can argue the point of diminished responsibility at court. But arguing it at the point of arrest opens the justice system up to tremendous abuse

In fairness if someone is so profoundly disabled they cannot control themselves from abusing and assaulting others, they need intensive care. This may mean they need two full time carers who carry out detailed risk assessments before they are supported to access public places where they might interact with the public. It might mean using a single cubicle disabled changing room, with two carers so that they are never ever allowed to interact with and abuse members of the public. That’s what needs to happen if that person doesn’t have the capacity to not assault people in a public space.

Indeed that's the way it should be. Area dependant, the reality is very different to what's funded and what's available. So in that case, again, it isn't the disabled persons fault if that much needed care isn't provided

@Hungryharriet

Well obviously I don’t know Steinbeck’s intention, but a lot of lit -crit suggests it’s to highlight her lack of autonomy and independence. She isn’t Jane or Marie or anybody. She’s just Curley’s wife. She is not valued outside of the possessive. And in a world and time where women had no value outside of belonging to somebody, she belongs to someone she dislikes and who is cruel to her. She’s lonely and unhappy, hence the reaching out to those around her for some type of belonging or affirmation that she exists and is a person. I’ve always thought she (and the attitudes to her) are really sad. She’s a victim just like Lennie.

He's out in society every day. I said he hurts me, not everyone. How insulting to suggest keeping him locked up 😆

Again, autism isn't a mental health issue. Severely autistic individuals won't be getting arrested, I'm afraid. I don't care about high functioning individuals who sexually assault or harass people but I do care about vulnerable disabled people, male and female, as both can be aggressive.

So we just let them assault us and hope it stops?

Also how do you know - it’s not like autistic people wears badges or have purple coloured skin. If a man starts to assault me I’m afraid I don’t have time to pontificate on wether or not he may be autistic.

What is your actual point? That autistic people don’t know what they’re doing and so the world should let their criminal behaviour slide?

But then unfortunately if that support can’t be provided, it’s not possible for that person to go swimming and change in a women’s changing room knowing they will likely sexually assault women. A woman’s right not to be sexually assaulted places above a man’s right to have a swim. Sad that they can’t enjoy that leisure activity safely but it’s like if someone with severe physical disability couldn’t access a physical activity as carers wouldn’t be available. It can’t happen in that case as everyone wouldn’t be safe.

But you said to me that if you were getting assaulted by a disabled person you’d expect their cater to step in - I’m asking, what if they didn’t have a carer?

You are being disingenuous now. You are suggesting that he literally is not able to understand the concept of what it means to hurt someone, and that he is violent. If this continues into his teen years then your seeming preferred outcome which is that he’s sort of let off if he assaults or rapes someone isn’t going to work.

As sad as it is, at that point society needs to (and will) transfer him to a secure psychiatric facility for the rest of his life.

Your attitude of “oh, come on, he really didn’t understand what your terrified screams meant” won’t work.

You seem genuinely unable to understand this.