To think ‘hybrid working’ is a bit shit actually?

[OctopusDare]

(Full disclosure: I’m really hoping all the replies are “YABU because my employer is doing it properly and it’s great”, to give me some hope to look elsewhere. Please also let me know if you’re hiring.)

My office job went WFH at the start of the pandemic. This was shit for those of us who don’t like WFH, but okay, pandemic. This year we have been trying ‘hybrid’ working. What this means is that coming into the office sometimes is ‘encouraged’. In practice it looks like this:

• Senior people mostly don’t, except their bosses want them to, so what we get is them regularly hassling us to “have a conversation with your manager about what works for you and your team! But come in sometimes! But it’s entirely up to you! But also you should definitely come in sometimes,” on Zoom calls from their lovely garden offices.

• About two-thirds of people say they want to work out of the office some of the week, but that they don’t want to go in if it’s nearly empty, they only want to go in if there are other people there to work with. And this never seems to get co-ordinated, so in practice people just… don’t go in because it’s empty because of all the other people who aren’t there because they don’t want to go in if it’s empty.

• For those of us who are in, the office is bleak and weird to work from and feels like a post-apocalyptic disaster film.

• Because of all this it’s really hard to train up new people to do anything other than very process-based work. We have lost some newer recruits because they felt like they weren’t getting to meet people or learn from them, and because they didn’t like the choice between working from home and working from a near-empty office on their own.

• There is ENDLESS whining, on and on and on and on, from some of the people who want to WFH full-time and feel like they’re being ‘pressured’ to go back in. “But I am more productive from home!”, says the person who just emailed a distribution list of 40 of us to complain yet again at length about how much he hates offices.

• Endless amounts of time trying to work out “hybrid ways of working” which all just end up the worst of both worlds. Like meetings - the rule is now that we encourage meetings to be in-person, but everyone in person should have their laptops in front of them with cameras on and talk to the camera, so that the people joining from home don’t feel left out. Which is rubbish. So people don’t do it and just work from home, which the managers then complain about, which… etc etc etc.

I liked the idea of hybrid working, but in practice it feels like the worst of both worlds. All the bad points of WFH except with added faff and stress and whining and uncertainty.

Are there places which are making this work? (And by ‘making this work’ I do not mean ‘the office is open for people who want it i suppose but I personally don’t leave my house’, we already have that, I mean a proper mix of in-person and at-home.) Or is hybrid just inevitably shit?

I work in inpatient services in the NHS. It infuriates me how some staff think they should still WFH. This is mainly whilst the rest of us pick up their work which cannot be completed remotely. I suspect when the utility bills increase over the winter everyone will suddenly come back to the work place.

We are still mostly WFH and haven't yet to be mandated to return to the office. We can go in if we want. Most people still enjoy WFH. There was talk of having everyone in on one day but my dept would not want to be in that day but one of the quieter ones. So if they said 2 dpw, most of the company would choose Tuesday/Wed or Thursday. We would choose Monday and Friday. I was classed as CEV so why would I want to be in with everyone else

We were asked to talk to our teams to get an idea of current feelings, no one said they wanted to go back.

Sounds like it being badly managed op. It works well with us, where directors decide what’s to be in place in their own areas, and take into account business needs, personal circumstances, etc. we mostly work two days in the office, three at home, which I really like.

And they lied?

If you take an alternative way of working and try to cram it into an existing workplace in terms of structure, ideas and the physical office then you probably do get the worst of most worlds.
An office needs to be designed specifically for hybrid working to really be successful as it is a totally different way of working.
Many places are implementing these changes but obviously some are slow to follow. It is also has a financial benefit to enact these changes though as the business is currently paying for office space full of empty desks so redoing that and using design to foster change is much better value long term.

Good opportunity for you to do a report setting out why it isn't working well and suggesting how to do it better picking out the bits from posts where hybrid is working well which would work in your office.

OP, you have described my workplace perfectly.

My role requires me to be on site full time but it feels like a ghost town even though we get a third of people in daily. The vibe has gone. It's just not what it was. Quite sad really.

I think it's the way your employers have handled it, tbh. Most places I know that have moved onto hybrid working have done it in a variety of ways, and they've tried to tailor it to meet the needs to the employees - so some people who want to come in every day, come in every day; some people who want to work from home full-time, only come in occasionally; the rest are somewhere in the middle. We put in rotas, so the office is staffed every day, but not overly full, so parking is easier too; overall it's been a big success where I work!

Yeah it’s crap. I hate it and one of the reasons I want a new job is my current one ( just started before lockdown) has been a dismal failure due to this. No support, proper management or on the job learning. I just do stuff I already know how to do and am not learning anything new at all.

Worried it will be the same in any new job, though. For the same reasons.

I think this arrangement is tougher for new staff.

I agree it's just been badly handled. But these firms will wake up and have to adapt eventually, or at least learn to be flexible, as people leave.

Post covid, People want different things. I want hybrid, and I want choice and flexibility. I actually prefer to be in the office unlike most of my friends, but I work from home one day a week and I can increase that should I choose. I have this in both my part time jobs, so I'm happy. Being middle aged I want to sometimes be at home and put on a load of washing as I work.

But for ds1, as he goes off to uni and is working for a big finance firm, I want him primarily in the office being mentored properly.

I think this will adapt and subtly change. Firms will quickly learn that they have to!

Works at our place really well , a few of is coordinate out days and go in same days

I have been in the office since Week 4 of the start of the pandemic

i wish people would stay WFH as the office is so noisy when people come in 😳😳😹😹👍

We have fully adopted hybrid working, everyone does 2 days in the office per week. If you want to come in full time, we will accommodate that too, but I don’t know anyone who does that. It’s working very well, everyone seems to like it, and we’ve all adapted well to Teams meetings. Practically every employer within my sector offers hybrid and we had to join them to to attract/retain staff. Personally, I feel like I’ve won the lottery, I love my job but the commute and hamster-on-the-wheel of Monday to Friday was beginning to get too much. Hybrid has extended my working life indefinitely, I enjoy the 2 office days but really appreciate my 3 days at home.

I don’t really understand the “people will be crawling back to the office come winter” stuff. We heard that so much last year and it didn’t make much of a change.

I actually have quite an inexpensive commute but the cost of running the heating for a few hours during the afternoon while WFH is still a lot less than the cost of a return commute for me and my husband.

I’m of the same view, I prefer wfh but hybrid allows me to keep in touch make connections network etc. it’s well known the days I’m in the office are my least productive as I spend my time helping other people rather than doing my work, but my days at home I absolutely smash through things

We’re trying to make people want to go in, we don’t want to force people to go in certain days a week as then we have to enforce it and discipline people and lose people. We’re stuck between a rock and a hard place.

Certain people were very unhappy working from home (with good reason) but since we’ve reopened the office they find excuses not to come in and moan about that too.

I WFH every day (work 4 days p/t ) and do NHS admin.

I had to leave my last job as my employer refused me to wfh a couple of days a week just so I could collect my children from after school club and nursery - BUT when I left, there were still people (yep the senior ones) working from home whenever they feel like it.

I’m not being lazy, I work really hard from home, I actually prefer being in an office, but my children still need picking up from childcare.

anyway I now work full time from home, I can go in to a practice one day a week, but truthfully it’s fucking soulless and in this weather, not a chance. I do work autonomously though so it doesn’t actually matter where I am. I am very productive at home, and everyone is on teams calls because they are spread out across the CCG. But I’m lonely and a bit isolated and miss the relationships I build with people. I never speak to my line manager because he’s shit, but I have a great relationship with our CEO and do a lot of exec work.

but I do it because it works best for our family - 2 young kids who need picking up and truthfully and (a bit bitterly) it works well for my husband and his job. But he earns a lot more than me and has more responsibility than me. So I do it.

so it works for everyone else, our children, my husband. And we are a family. But yes I’m sad. So every bloody job I look for now needs to take that all in to consideration.

so it’s not that I’m being lazy wanting to work from home - I work bloody hard - but circumstances have forced me to do that.

but yes I wish companies would be more transparent about what they actually mean by hybrid etc / flexibility

I know that was directed at OP rather than me, but I think the difficulty of getting another job is that every company now calls themselves "hybrid" and you have no way of knowing until you get there what that actually means in practice. Yes, you can ask at interview, but you can't guarantee getting a true picture (as at least one poster on this thread has said). And it's a big commitment to leave a job you otherwise like on the basis that there might be better working arrangements elsewhere.

My set up is similar to how you describe and it helped when I changed it to we all are in and out of the office on the same days so no ghost office. We have a rolling 4 week rota which includes some Monday and Fridays.

I am sick of hearing all this time later how certain people wish they could work from home FT whinging and whining about travel and god knows what yet are still there months later and doing nothing to look for another job that would allow them to WFH FT.

The same people who wear the same clothes to the office and spend the whole day complaining its freezing with the air con on but never bring a jumper or dress differently.

We have 3 fixed days in the office. On one of those days we're all in together. If we need to come in for something on a different day to usual, we can skip one of our fixed days if we want to. It's a small office and there have been days I've been sat alone because the others are on holiday. Those ones feel pointless but it works well most of the time.

I work from home full time. But people are encouraged to do what works for them. Some work in the office full time, and some half the week in and half at home. I find that the young ones prefer working in the office because of the mixing socially aspect. I’m older though, so feel ive been there, done that, and I’m not bothered about the social bit. We have ‘teams’ on our laptops so I catch up with the people I want to on a weekly basis for a chat, so it works well for me. I have my DH and son though to chat to after work, so I guess it would be quite isolating wfh full time if you live alone.

Same! And it’s rubbish. I went into the office yesterday, my floor seats 250 and there was 7 of us. SEVEN!!!

However it was lovely as air con was blasting out. The 7 of us all predicted that come winter the office will fill up as people will resent paying for heating.

to add, my company is very relaxed - do what you want approach. I actually think they need to be firmer and say you have to come into the office at least 2 days a week on set days. But the senior managers all like being at home so that ain’t going to happen!!!

@MabelMoo23

Your post really resonated with me. My DH goes into the office FT. We have no childcare since pandemic (no point paying for it because why when we are at home - kids older though). BUT this arrangement is reliant on me WFH. On the odd occasion when I can’t because I have a meeting and DH has to cover school run I don’t half hear about it.

I don’t think that we are being completely honest in the hybrid/wfh conversation. Many now need it to do school/nursery runs. And before anyone says I just need to get child care there is non! Put my DC on the waiting list and he is at the end of a waiting list of 45 kids.

The reality this is not just a WFH debate it’s a debate about:

• Fuel costs


• Public transport costs


• Poor parking options


• childcare crisis