To think ‘hybrid working’ is a bit shit actually?

[OctopusDare]

(Full disclosure: I’m really hoping all the replies are “YABU because my employer is doing it properly and it’s great”, to give me some hope to look elsewhere. Please also let me know if you’re hiring.)

My office job went WFH at the start of the pandemic. This was shit for those of us who don’t like WFH, but okay, pandemic. This year we have been trying ‘hybrid’ working. What this means is that coming into the office sometimes is ‘encouraged’. In practice it looks like this:

• Senior people mostly don’t, except their bosses want them to, so what we get is them regularly hassling us to “have a conversation with your manager about what works for you and your team! But come in sometimes! But it’s entirely up to you! But also you should definitely come in sometimes,” on Zoom calls from their lovely garden offices.

• About two-thirds of people say they want to work out of the office some of the week, but that they don’t want to go in if it’s nearly empty, they only want to go in if there are other people there to work with. And this never seems to get co-ordinated, so in practice people just… don’t go in because it’s empty because of all the other people who aren’t there because they don’t want to go in if it’s empty.

• For those of us who are in, the office is bleak and weird to work from and feels like a post-apocalyptic disaster film.

• Because of all this it’s really hard to train up new people to do anything other than very process-based work. We have lost some newer recruits because they felt like they weren’t getting to meet people or learn from them, and because they didn’t like the choice between working from home and working from a near-empty office on their own.

• There is ENDLESS whining, on and on and on and on, from some of the people who want to WFH full-time and feel like they’re being ‘pressured’ to go back in. “But I am more productive from home!”, says the person who just emailed a distribution list of 40 of us to complain yet again at length about how much he hates offices.

• Endless amounts of time trying to work out “hybrid ways of working” which all just end up the worst of both worlds. Like meetings - the rule is now that we encourage meetings to be in-person, but everyone in person should have their laptops in front of them with cameras on and talk to the camera, so that the people joining from home don’t feel left out. Which is rubbish. So people don’t do it and just work from home, which the managers then complain about, which… etc etc etc.

I liked the idea of hybrid working, but in practice it feels like the worst of both worlds. All the bad points of WFH except with added faff and stress and whining and uncertainty.

Are there places which are making this work? (And by ‘making this work’ I do not mean ‘the office is open for people who want it i suppose but I personally don’t leave my house’, we already have that, I mean a proper mix of in-person and at-home.) Or is hybrid just inevitably shit?

I think we are just entering a new era of work more centred around work/life balance.

This is the big rallying cry, but honestly if what that looks like is my current soulless miserable setup then I do not think we’re there. Yay I commute less, but I want more from both my work and my life than that.

Get another job then is the answer.

We commenced Hybrid two weeks ago. The policy is very clear you must be in the office Tues, Thurs, that's everyone irrespective of seniority and where you are based. You can choose the alternative days and most departments adapted a rota. So far, so good.

I wouldn’t have my heating on all day just because I’m at home, would many? Even using some extra, I’d imagine for a lot of people that’s still offset by the savings in fuel/fares/parking to get to and from work, not having to pay for after school childcare or activities for dc who are in that ‘old enough to entertain themselves for an hour or two but not old enough to be left home alone for that period’ category.

Then there are other less obvious costs that I’m not incurring while I wfh - I don’t have to replace work appropriate clothes and shoes anywhere near as often, I have more time to plan and prep meals so less likely to shoot into the nice supermarket and pay over the odds for fresh prepared food when I’m running late, I’m not buying lunches/coffees to go. I know those ones are optional anyway and not necessities but it’s money I’m not now spending that I did previously.

Besides all that, if last winter is anything to go by our office will be fucking freezing because they insisted on every second window being left open for ventilation cos covid. Chilly when the office is pretty much all windows!

We had flexible hybrid working before the pandemic but most people mainly worked in the office 50% of time as the systems weren't set up to work at home 100%. The pandemic then meant that systems were set up to fill in most of the bits that previously couldn't be done from home. Some things just can't be but there was a rota of non vulnerable staff coming in to do those tasks during the pandemic.
Now we are expected in 40% of time. So two days out of 5.
But it is much quieter in the office than before.
But we have team days we are expected in once a week so when we come in on those days the rest of the team is in and its good for new starters learning etc. And catching up with people. The other day we can pick so I go in on a day when its convenient to me. Sometimes it's very quiet other times it busier.
I think people who are pushing back on the 40% and just don't come in enough risk becoming isolated from what's going on. They won't get disaplined though as its hard to recruit people in our sector.
Its been easier since we were told 40% in. For everyone across the whole employer. But teams/sections can make individual arrangements how to reach that 40%. Some parts are public facing so they need to be in more anyway.
A rota has really helped us get more value from coming in.

it works very well in my organisation.
we have to be in the office twice a week. but can be there every day if we want to.
we don't have set days but are expected in for certain meetings for which we have at least 2 weeks notice so can arrange childcare/pet sitting etc.

the only people pissed off about it are those who moved away when we did 100% wfh and now have a killer commute.

And management lead by example so they come in 40% or more too.

Coffee shops in my city say they’re doing well from hybrid because on the days people are in the office they spend more. Certainly I always have a bought lunch on office days and usually pop out again for a coffee and a muffin at some point. I wouldn’t do that every day but twice a week it’s a bit of treat.

I don’t want to have picnics and be best friends with people I work with, I want proper training and picking up skills in the workplace, I want to be involved in office politics and build work relationships, not have a blurry weird extra family that I occasionally see for picnics or running. And I am a recent graduate used to virtual relationships.

You chose the wrong employer

Did they misled you as to how the hybrid working situation at work? Not yours (as presumably that was at least made clear to you) but the business as a general? Did you ask?

I think we may work for the same company OP 😂

The whole hybrid set up is miserable on the days we are supposed to go into the office. Rows and rows of endless desks and a pointless journey. I can’t stand having hybrid zoom calls. It only works if everyone is in the room or everyone is on the screen.

No idea why they couldn’t have said everybody in on x and y days. Oh yes, I know why… our CEO wants to get rid of some floors in the building and everyone hit desks. They’ll save millions, but lose any sense of corporate culture or collaboration 🤦🏼‍♀️ Which I think will dent the finances even more than they’re saving!!

OP I think your point on the problems of hybrid meetings could be a thread all by itself.

The fact every meeting now takes an extra 10 minutes to set up to sort out the tech. Can everyone wfh hear ok? Who in the room should be on mute or not? Whether to look at your laptop screen, the big screen, or at real life colleagues?

Also, part of my role is event organisation. I recently organised a hybrid event and it was a logistical nightmare!. It felt like organising two separate meetings (catering, room, etc for in person attendees, then the whole zoom side of things for virtual attendees. And then getting those two elements to ‘marry up’ on the day so it feels like one seamless event. So time consuming and stressful.

Not to mention the fact that hybrid working has made people really flaky in terms of whether they turn up to inperson meetings and events. Some people sign up to attend and then - at short notice - email to say that they’ll be joining virtually instead. Or just join virtually without letting us know. Which means we waste a small fortune booking large meeting rooms, and catering for everyone who said they’d attend in person originally. I work for a charity and so it’s a really poor use of money.

I think I'm at the same place as you too @OctopusDare , we'll need a secret sign to identify ourselves 👐

Agree that the woolly guidance is shit. We tried to nominate a team day, but found we'd need to split ourselves across three days otherwise part time colleagues would be always excluded.

Others have moved house to a non-commutable distance.

I'd like a rule, with flex for medical appointments etc. It's no fun swallowing the loss of free time/money in commuting, then finding yourself the only person in a room of 300 desks. Or, if there are a few people in but not enough to create background noise, having to go to a meeting room for every call and online meeting, so you don't pierce the silence and irritate people.

On the positive side, I like not commuting every day. My chronic health condition has improved. Pre-pandemic, I couldn't manage the commute with my health, so had to go part time and lose out financially. I'd hate for a mandate to return to the office every day.

Where I work the "rule" is two days a week in the office and we also have a weekly anchor day. I have different arrangements as I was always going to be home-based anyway pre-covid, but I went in on not an anchor day this week and there were quite a few people in.

However, I know what you mean about the meetings. You have people in the office doing meetings on Teams, so they might as well have stayed at home!

Next year we are moving into a new office which might encourage more people to go in, our current office does have a bit of a dismal feel to it as it is being wound down before the move. The new office is nearer to my station, so it will be easier for me anyway.

WFH suits me. I save money (for the moment, we'll see what happens with energy bills) and loads of time. And I have time to do activities after work so I see people then.

@Endlesslypatient82 Yes, I was told as a trainee I would be in office. But no one else is. So what am I supposed to learn from a picnic very 3 months and a teams meeting about a cat messing about or what people’s kids are up to?

Not much

you didn’t ask what the business approach was re hybrid / WFH aside from new grad recruits?

Our hybrid working is on a two week rota and one day every two weeks our whole team is in so we can have a catch up. I really enjoy hybrid working and honestly if they made us all go back to the office, I'd probably leave and find another remote working job.

My DD knew she didn’t want tumbleweed in her first grad job office. So she made bloody sure it was one of the first questions she asked.

It just doesn’t seem a professional environment to me.

@Endlesslypatient82 ooh calm down, I did ask about it!

What I do hate, is hybrid jobs being advertised as remote. That's deliberately misleading. It gives the impression that you can do the job entirely remote. Also jobs that say 'work from anywhere' but go to London one day a week. That's not fucking work from anywhere, that's work from a commuting distance of London!

Yes! My industry is heavily London-centric and whilst it should theoretically be easier now than pre-pandemic to work from elsewhere, it’s actually harder with hybrid working. Pre-pandemic it was possible for me to work from home with a once a month trip to the office, and that’s because I was the exception not the rule. Lucky for me, unlucky for others, I suppose, but that was what I’d negotiated. Now that everyone can WFH as part of a hybrid model, all jobs are hybrid. I’m too far to commute for minimum 2 days every week - I’d be able to do once a week at a push and very considerable expense. Two days I’d need to stay overnight as well. I left my WFH job pre-pandemic, as it happens, for a different opportunity but I wouldn’t be able to get a job like that again now, I’m pretty sure. Until there are more smaller regional hubs and less Big London HQs I don’t think it’s made anything more democratic or widened opportunities at all.

We are in a place that is work how you want (within reason) boss is usually in office 4 days, as are a few others, I do two days a week as do a large portion off the office. As long as peoples calendars are managed it doesn’t matter as we do most meetings Over teams anyway. Where we need in person attendance we arrange and organise accordingly.

our team isn’t massive and we all do different roles and not interchangeable, we have been skilled up to do the core of a few others roles to allow for holiday cover etc, but it works fine for us.

it really depends on the people and the jobs. Where you need to be trained it’s a bit crap, but we still have our L&d running sessions which are book in and in person and it’s our choice. Ultimately we are a high performing team that is left to be adults and not micromanaged. Our manager couldn’t do any of our jobs but what she does is clear the path for us, and give us the space to do what we need.

haven't RTFT

We have Hybrid Working, but to be fair to our company they had already started making noises about it in 2018 and introducing it for some people in mid 2019 so when the pandemic hit we were ready for WFH.

I actually started during one of the longer lockdown phases and i didn't even get to see any of my coworkers in person until we had been working - using own tech and VPNs - for 2 months or so. My induction didn't go well and i requested to change roles internally (there were several reasons why it didn't go well, WFH was the thing that exacerbated it)

now we're hybrid and it's supposed to be around 50/50 and we have hotdesking - nobody has their own desk except reception and office management who work in the office every day. The rest of us? i barely go to the office because it's a long way and petrol is expensive. Others go most days. Most of us are happy with the arrangement, but we're in an industry that makes plenty of money, we have more work than ever and they are not stingy about us arranging workshops/team meetings for 2 days in one or other of our locations (we are spread all over the country anyway so our default is Teams for most meetings anyway)

But different strokes for different folks (and industries i guess)

As I said in my OP, I’m interested in learning how many of these other jobs out there are doing hybrid in a way that works, before I jack in the one I’ve got.

why do people get so snarky and defensive about post-pandemic working? I’m not going to match round to people’s houses and force them back to the office and confiscate the pandemic puppy that can’t be left alone. I’m noting that my current hybrid ‘best of all worlds!’ situation isn’t, in reality, and hoping there’s better out there.

Personally I would far prefer not to go in at all. But the flip side is that it is having a very negative effect on work culture and the people who suffer most are junior staff who are losing the training, the mentorship and the support. So senior people do need to commit to going in if they care about training the next generation.

I think this is going to be the biggest problem going forward.

Our twenty somethings have had their exams fucked by lockdown, their time at university fucked by lockdown and now their first experience of full time working is being fucked too.

Everyone is very keen to blame the selfish boomer generation on all ills affecting our youth, but other generations are being just as selfish and condemning Gen Z to a weird half life of social isolation and social media.