To think ‘hybrid working’ is a bit shit actually?

[OctopusDare]

(Full disclosure: I’m really hoping all the replies are “YABU because my employer is doing it properly and it’s great”, to give me some hope to look elsewhere. Please also let me know if you’re hiring.)

My office job went WFH at the start of the pandemic. This was shit for those of us who don’t like WFH, but okay, pandemic. This year we have been trying ‘hybrid’ working. What this means is that coming into the office sometimes is ‘encouraged’. In practice it looks like this:

• Senior people mostly don’t, except their bosses want them to, so what we get is them regularly hassling us to “have a conversation with your manager about what works for you and your team! But come in sometimes! But it’s entirely up to you! But also you should definitely come in sometimes,” on Zoom calls from their lovely garden offices.

• About two-thirds of people say they want to work out of the office some of the week, but that they don’t want to go in if it’s nearly empty, they only want to go in if there are other people there to work with. And this never seems to get co-ordinated, so in practice people just… don’t go in because it’s empty because of all the other people who aren’t there because they don’t want to go in if it’s empty.

• For those of us who are in, the office is bleak and weird to work from and feels like a post-apocalyptic disaster film.

• Because of all this it’s really hard to train up new people to do anything other than very process-based work. We have lost some newer recruits because they felt like they weren’t getting to meet people or learn from them, and because they didn’t like the choice between working from home and working from a near-empty office on their own.

• There is ENDLESS whining, on and on and on and on, from some of the people who want to WFH full-time and feel like they’re being ‘pressured’ to go back in. “But I am more productive from home!”, says the person who just emailed a distribution list of 40 of us to complain yet again at length about how much he hates offices.

• Endless amounts of time trying to work out “hybrid ways of working” which all just end up the worst of both worlds. Like meetings - the rule is now that we encourage meetings to be in-person, but everyone in person should have their laptops in front of them with cameras on and talk to the camera, so that the people joining from home don’t feel left out. Which is rubbish. So people don’t do it and just work from home, which the managers then complain about, which… etc etc etc.

I liked the idea of hybrid working, but in practice it feels like the worst of both worlds. All the bad points of WFH except with added faff and stress and whining and uncertainty.

Are there places which are making this work? (And by ‘making this work’ I do not mean ‘the office is open for people who want it i suppose but I personally don’t leave my house’, we already have that, I mean a proper mix of in-person and at-home.) Or is hybrid just inevitably shit?

the problem is that people who want to go into the office want to make sure other people are there, but they can't force that
That’s it basically.
A lot of people are happy to wfh most of the time, with the difficulties are having to recruit they don’t want to force a return to the office to please a minority who don’t want to / can’t wfh.
Also cost of living, for a lot of people especially around London, heating their home during the day will still cost less than 1-2 travelcards + lunches out + dry cleaner for office clothes, etc. also savings in terms of childcare as no commute means less hours are needed.

It is being recommended by our senior managers that we work in the office for three days each week. Except that, if you have flexible working (condensed hours) then you only need to come in for two days. So their ecommendation already doesn't work ...

My team were always a bit in & out even before Covid, as the role can take you to other offices or even to other government offices for meetings; so it doesn't actually feel that different now - just that if you are not sitting in the main office, you might be elewhere or you might be WFH. We use Teams Chat for non-work related chat, including checking in with each other in the morning; this enables us to discuss who is working where so that we can try and co-ordinate office attendance where possible (it's not good to be there on your own). And we have a 4-weekly meeting where we all attend the office (except that's been kyboshed by the rail strike this month!)

I know of other teams where hybrid working seems disorganised, they tend to be the kind of teams where the leaders micro-manage their staff and who are now struggling as they find they cannot enforce office attendance to continue this level of scrutiny.

We've always hot desked so that crapness has been normal for ages. The various teams I'm in are based all over the UK so one day in the office for the whole team doesn't make any sense. We have about twice as many people as desks. The best times in the office are when there's hardly anyone in. Otherwise, I'm sitting with people I barely know so the concept of learning from each other is pretty meaningless. I feel sorry for people who love being in the office but I don't feel I should have to be in to suit them.

I work from home full time and it is great. I don't want to socialise with colleagues and I find working in an open plan office really distracting. The majority of our team don't go in but that is because parking is a nightmare. Parking permits are closed to new applicants and it is expensive.

Majority of team threatened to quit when they wanted everyone back in the office full time but they only relented as they realised there wasn't enough space anymore for more than half the te to be in.

If we have a new person then one of the team is nominated to go in with them for a few weeks and mentor

We worked really really hard for months to put in place a hybrid working model. We now only have to go into the office to do work which is clearly better done in an office environment, altho people are welcome to come 5 days a week if that is their preferred way of working.

we are trusted to make the decision as to the most productive way for us to work, be that in the office, at home. We have put in place extra policies to support new starters/ early careers to ensure they are supported and to give them the opportunity to build relationships across then company and for ‘learning by observing’ (critical for early careers)

senior leaders are happy with the model, they lead by example, and we worked hard to get employee buy in. We constantly seek feedback from employees and see this as very much an evolving model.

youre never going to get to a place where every employee is 100% happy but you have to go with the majority. Employees are encouraged to collect their kids from school, have dinner with their families, go to the gym during the day etc etc, it’s all about output rather than Hours worked. If employees take the piss (always going to be the way for a tiny tiny minority of employees in whatever organisation), their managers just put in place performance management.

Sellie555 what does this look like in terms of how many people are in/how often?

That's bad management, they should organise it better. Our department was told we must be in the office two days a week, one of which is Tuesday when everyone is in together. Works really well.

I will just say that people who hate WFH really genuinely perplex me. Unless you're living in a cupboard under the stairs then I could understand but otherwise WFH saved my mental health and I can't understand why this hasn't always been the go-to policy. I'm never going to work from an office full time again. I can't tell you how happy that's made me.

Tipping my hat to the people who seem to work in the same organisation as me, or one of its close cousins. We should set up a New (And Rubbish) Ways Of Working support group on Yammer 😁

I absolutely loathed it. Isolating, all human contact on screens - I’m not an extrovert but this really wore me down. And no separation between work and life, so it felt like work was oozing its way into my house and taking up my mental and physical space. I like my job but I want to be away from it sometimes.

I do know people who love it, though, and I’ve worked for one employer pre-pandemic that had WFH teams (not one I was in) that worked really well, so I’ve seen it done properly. Still not my thing at all but way better than lockdown working.

Multiple people have said to you Op it’s not hybrid working it’s shit management by your employer

We should set up a New (And Rubbish) Ways Of Working support group on Yammer 😁

So the Group should really called “We work for shit employers support group”!

One of my old workplaces has said "the office is open on x days fir those who wish to come in". It seems to be working well for them. It means those who don't want to go don't have to, those who want company get company.

you could suggest that?

I love hybrid working and enjoy working from home but it absolutely doesn’t perplex me some people hate it.

Poor marriage but now both working at home
Hate their home
Awful connection issues
Noisy neighbours
hate their job but interaction with colleagues made it bearable

just for starters….

But this makes no change to the current situation at OP’s workplace whatsoever

That’s what we’ve got now, really, and it’s not great. That sort of setup works great for the people who don’t really want to go in at all or who are senior enough to set their own company (“team meetings in the office every other Tuesday, be there”). Not so great outside that.

Your office needs to put in a rota of some kind, that's the easiest way to accommodate everyone, and also to ensure a minimum staffing level throughout the week. It also means you can more easily fit in the people who want to be in full-time and the ones who only want to be in once in a while.

Endless amounts of time trying to work out “hybrid ways of working” which all just end up the worst of both worlds. Like meetings - the rule is now that we encourage meetings to be in-person, but everyone in person should have their laptops in front of them with cameras on and talk to the camera, so that the people joining from home don’t feel left out. Which is rubbish. So people don’t do it and just work from home, which the managers then complain about, which… etc etc etc.

this is the most bizarre post of all re your employer OP.

In our team, there is 7 of us, due to an office relocation 2 of us are in London and Kent and the others are in Leeds, the 5 are on a rota 3 days in and 2 days wfh so it seems to work for us. I'm fully wfh unless I'm asked to go to the office, the last time was March

This is exactly what happens at my work.

It's rubbish

Lots of people on here talking about isolation. But why are you isolated? If you work in an office and have a long commute you necessarily have to socialise with colleagues because you don't have time to see anyone, or do anything, else.

But if you work from home most of the time you have time to meet local friends and do activities locally. For example, having time to do an exercise class in the evening. People seem to think that being at home = no friends/no social contact. No, it just means you don't see your colleagues as often.

I agree that there are lots of things to consider but climate change is a massive one, and taking cars off the road for unnecessary journeys is a huge advantage of WFH. Now we just need to sort out the school run, too.

(I agree if you want to avoid your spouse, WFH is rubbish, but then I'd go into the office every day, and if that wasn't an option, look for another job)

Hybrid works where I work. We have several offices in multiple countries and most meetings would be by video anyway because of that, although there are some people in the office I work in who prefer to grab me for a chat in person so being in the office a couple of days per week is good for that.

Officially I'm meant to be in the office three days per week although as I'm the only person in my team in the UK and my boss isn't a micromanager noone really checks, so I sometimes drop it to 2 if it works better with life or if I'm travelling to another office for part of the week. I do always go in when my boss is visiting though, even if it's not my normal days.

I only started with this company last year and it's a slightly longer commute than my old job which I cycled to - I wouldn't have wanted to do it every day but 3 days is manageable.

Just to clarify

Is the problem more among people who don't want to go in, or people who are forced to?

I have worked at home since 2016. This is so easy to sort in terms of work.

The problem that came up when I started was people who seemed to think their loneliness was a workplace problem, which it isn't.

But if you work from home most of the time you have time to meet local friends and do activities locally.

Not while I’m working I don’t!

I don’t want work to be a substitute for socialising with friends and family. I can do that as much as I ever did. I’m not looking to gossip about Strictly with the finance team, I would just prefer the 40 hours a week spent at my job to not be as devoid of non-screen human contact as they are when I’m working from home, because I find it isolating and boring and really hard to get any creative, collaborative work done with colleagues.

Other people can enjoy working like this if they like. Some of us don’t though. And being more able to make it to Zumba after dinner does not change the fact that the work itself gets significantly less enjoyable.

I think you need to hand in your notice OP, tomorrow. You despite WFH. And from what you have stressed on this thread - it will continue at your employer’s