To think ‘hybrid working’ is a bit shit actually?

[OctopusDare]

(Full disclosure: I’m really hoping all the replies are “YABU because my employer is doing it properly and it’s great”, to give me some hope to look elsewhere. Please also let me know if you’re hiring.)

My office job went WFH at the start of the pandemic. This was shit for those of us who don’t like WFH, but okay, pandemic. This year we have been trying ‘hybrid’ working. What this means is that coming into the office sometimes is ‘encouraged’. In practice it looks like this:

• Senior people mostly don’t, except their bosses want them to, so what we get is them regularly hassling us to “have a conversation with your manager about what works for you and your team! But come in sometimes! But it’s entirely up to you! But also you should definitely come in sometimes,” on Zoom calls from their lovely garden offices.

• About two-thirds of people say they want to work out of the office some of the week, but that they don’t want to go in if it’s nearly empty, they only want to go in if there are other people there to work with. And this never seems to get co-ordinated, so in practice people just… don’t go in because it’s empty because of all the other people who aren’t there because they don’t want to go in if it’s empty.

• For those of us who are in, the office is bleak and weird to work from and feels like a post-apocalyptic disaster film.

• Because of all this it’s really hard to train up new people to do anything other than very process-based work. We have lost some newer recruits because they felt like they weren’t getting to meet people or learn from them, and because they didn’t like the choice between working from home and working from a near-empty office on their own.

• There is ENDLESS whining, on and on and on and on, from some of the people who want to WFH full-time and feel like they’re being ‘pressured’ to go back in. “But I am more productive from home!”, says the person who just emailed a distribution list of 40 of us to complain yet again at length about how much he hates offices.

• Endless amounts of time trying to work out “hybrid ways of working” which all just end up the worst of both worlds. Like meetings - the rule is now that we encourage meetings to be in-person, but everyone in person should have their laptops in front of them with cameras on and talk to the camera, so that the people joining from home don’t feel left out. Which is rubbish. So people don’t do it and just work from home, which the managers then complain about, which… etc etc etc.

I liked the idea of hybrid working, but in practice it feels like the worst of both worlds. All the bad points of WFH except with added faff and stress and whining and uncertainty.

Are there places which are making this work? (And by ‘making this work’ I do not mean ‘the office is open for people who want it i suppose but I personally don’t leave my house’, we already have that, I mean a proper mix of in-person and at-home.) Or is hybrid just inevitably shit?

set number of days in the office thing

I agree @Sellie555

The only thing to recommend set days in the office is that it is pretty easy to police monitor and hence win a tick in the box for compliance

Pah.

Is that the only thing to recommend it, though? Because lots and lots of the people in this thread saying hybrid is working at their office say that their office is mandating set days in. So seems like it is having a benefit there.

‘No set days, everyone go in as and when they want’ would just be the poor situation I’m in now, except with some changes to make the full-WFH fans get more of what they like. Can see how that would be an improvement for them. Not sure how it would be an improvement for anyone else.

Five years ish? Maybe six. Long enough to have seen it well before covid, anyway.

Mixed bag at my place. Very much team-based approach so some teams in all on the same day, once per week. I have made it clear I want to work from home simply because I work independently across teams and it makes not a jot of difference if I'm in an office or not.

Was in for a day recently and it was weird. Most of the keyboards/docking stations not there and monitors broken (clearly some people just took what they wanted for their home offices) and people wearing headphones while in zoom meetings, shouting. Because the place is not bunged to capacity really easy to hear individual conversations and really distracting. Absolutely no desire to go back.

To stick with an employer that is clearly so utterly shite at management and run by very self absorbed managers (I’m ok so everyone else should be presumably) and when you are clearly very frustrated with them - seems bizarre unless other options are unlikely or closed off to you?

My employer does hybrid. My team doe Tuesdays and Thursday. Tuesday is a full office as all teams are in and Thursday is much more quiet as there's only 2 teams in. It works well for everyone as far as I'm aware x

It is actually a massive company with very low staff turnover. However our staff turnover increased with remote working as new members of staff were joining and leaving as they felt lonely, isolated and struggled to get to know the team and their roles.

It is only the direct team who need to come in. So in most cases might be once every few years that it impacts someone. It has had very positive feedback. However, we also had lots of staff who wanted to come in during the lockdowns because they missed the office so maybe our culture is different to others.

Yup sounds like we work at the same place! I’m months into a new job. If it wasn’t for another new lady I’d have quit. I have lost sleep and tears and never found anything so difficult or lonely than trying to learn hybrid (read remote because it’s either at home or in an office essentially on your own because even if colleagues are in they’ll be sat miles way cos of hot desking). Colleagues were v nice at the beginning making effort to meet at the office but feels like a big effort that no one can really be arsed with/ has time for.

Decides I’m sticking with it for now because it’s so flexible and suits right now but yeah I feel like I’m accepting more shot because it fits in with being a mum and yh i feel jealous of husband who goes into a work place.

@Beachmummy23

However our staff turnover increased with remote working as new members of staff were joining and leaving as they felt lonely, isolated and struggled to get to know the team and their roles.

Yes, this is a real problem with new staff, especially younger/trainee staff, who really need other staff around them to help them settle in to maybe their first proper job, need on the job training, need people to help them learn to do the job, etc.

Formal "training" only goes so far, especially in professional careers like law, accountancy, etc - the vast majority of "training" is by doing the job and getting help/support from your co-workers whilst you're doing it.

I'm hearing time and time again about big firms who are struggling with staff shortages, especially at mid/senior levels because they don't have the usual number of trainees coming up through the ranks, and a main reason for that is new entrants not sticking it out or taking longer to learn so that they're not ready for promotion and working up to the next levels.

Our work are strict about going in twice a week and we have team meeting weekly in person. But equally they are flexible if you don't want to do in, e.g. feeling under the weather, gas man coming etc.

We had a team meeting last week and a couple of the team were adamant that there was absolutely no need or benefit from them coming in ( we're meant to be in 1-2 days per week). Same team members also complained about being contacted through Teams, email or meetings. Apparently the only acceptable way is to phone them. They couldn't see that points one and two may be linked in some way.

WFH is a curse. People become isolated and set in their ways. They should do what they are told. If work wants them in they should go in or find another job.

It works where I am because people have set days they go in, 2x a week, mostly Tues/Weds/Thurs.

I like the set up tbh - means I am not alone all the time but also I feel my home/work balance is better. It would feel pointless if I was there by myself though which is why I think they set the days.

It works where I am because people have set days they go in, 2x a week, mostly Tues/Weds/Thurs.

I like the set up tbh - means I am not alone all the time but also I feel my home/work balance is better. It would feel pointless if I was there by myself though which is why I think they set the days.

Same here

In my last project before lockdown we worked remotely on Mondays and Fridays, but were in the office on Tuesdays, Wednesdays and Thursdays. That worked very well. I would have been happy to continue, but only because I knew the whole team etc.
The 2 projects I have done since lockdown were both WFH in new areas and did not go as well as they could have done, because no team building was possible.

Well, I don't know. I would never work full time from the office again if I had a choice in the matter. If I look for jobs anything that's full time in the office, or even more than 2 days mandatory, as discounted. I have gotten so used to flexibility and not commuting that there is just no chance I want to waste my life with it again.

That said, candidates we are interviewing and more often now asking for office atmosphere. People starting new jobs want to get to know people, and they are looking for the social aspect of work (in my experience).

So in my view YABU, but I thnk most people want some social interaction at work (but equally expect flexibility).

“Hybrid” at my work is exactly as described in the OP. I can’t complain however because WFH works great for me because of school runs etc. I spend a lot of time on Teams with colleagues who are overseas therefore I would be speaking into a camera no matter where I am working from. It works very well at DH work but only because they have very tightly controlled WFH/office days and his work is very strict about switching them. I think the problem comes as soon as the colleague has some control over their workplace.

We are hybrid, with the rule that you must be in the office for at least 60% of your working week (so effectively 3 days out of 5 if work Mon-Fri)

home days must be agreed with line manager.

it is also also very much seen as a privilege so your line manager can say no if they feel your aren’t productive at home and also if there is a week where you need to be in 5 days for business reasons etc then that is tough and just how it is that week.

I really struggle to understand people for whom WFH/remote or a hybrid set up is controversial. To me it's about as controversial as asking someone if they think vegetables are healthy

because no team building was possible.

Remote working may be more suitable for some than other types of roles.

Team building may be more difficult in remote environments. It takes more effort and requires more dedicated effort in a remote environment.

It is certainly not impossible, unless people do not put on the effort to work out what is required and ensure there is budget available.

Our office does it well I would say. When we started hybrid it was 3 days at office and 2 home, but then we went to 2 days in the office and 3 days WFH. We have set days with some flexibility, each dept manager is in charge of what days their team is in the office. We are a biggish team so there is always 5 or 6 of us at the office on any given day. I really like the set up, as I like to catch up with my colleagues but also love not rushing out of home every day.

I don't know why people find this so difficult - I work in a large organisation, we do 2 days in the office, then 3 at home. We have a rota, so we know who's in/out, and it's pretty well organised. Our IT is good, my home set up replicates exactly what I see on my 'desk' computer, and anyone who calls my 'desk' phone goes straight through to my work mobile. My team is small, but there's always a few people in each day. It's not complicated.

We have hybrid 2 days WFH 3 in the office. Do I think it works? Most of the time. After 9 months our organisation has individuals see it as a right and when exceptional circumstances direction from the management to be in the office on a WFH day - they complain, that their rights are being taken away - others opposite spectrum - enjoy, respect the opportunity to be hybrid.

We work on the basis that if something unexpected crops up, then you come in, even if you're not due to do so. And people generally respect that, so the system works.