To ask for your quotes from narcissistic mothers

[itsgoodtobehome]

Slightly tongue in cheek. My DM is a total narcissist which I'm mostly used to now, but every now and then she comes out with a new classic which makes even me wince.

So, next weekend, DM has invited me and DSis and our families for lunch to mark a family birthday. 9 of us in total, including kids. DM was telling me the other day what she was planning to serve for lunch. She mentioned a particular thing as a starter, which is quite an acquired taste. I know for a fact that my DDad and DH don't like it, and the 3 kids won't eat it. So basically 5 out of 9 guests don't like this dish. I told her this was a bit of a waste.
Her response: 'but I have planned this menu to look a certain way, and it won't look right if I don't make this dish'

So she is quite prepared to have most of her guests not eat something just so her menu 'looks good'. I give up. Has anyone else got batshit mothers who only think of themselves and nobody else?

@speakout how lovely that you have broken the cycle.

warm glow. I remain constantly amazed by my warm and close relationship with my kids. I had not thought anyone would unconditionally love me (& certainly hadn’t expected it from my kids!) since I always thought there was something wrong with ME (not surprising really, it was repeated enough times).

talking of love. I do not think it is an emotion my mother has or understands. She claims to be “loving”. Eg she ranting-howls about wishing my dad were still here (like Cathy from withering heights!). But when he was alive, at the end of his life (he’s a decade older than her) she subjected him to endless violent abuse. She also had affairs. Yet Neighbours have said to me: she is just so sad because she misses her husband who she loved so much. no. I do not think she knows how to love or what love is. She suffered childhood trauma, so do think her brain is damaged.

actually, I’m not clear on many of her emotions. They are not “normal”. She is very unpredictable. Up and down. Hysterical, the epitome of virtue.

she is also predatory. Again, the below will sound like a contradiction (ie she never actually listens, and it is all about her, but she also does the below…

She always had an intense staring look. She looks at you until you feel uncomfortable. like she is looking at a specimen.sizing you up. She sometimes mouths things as you are speaking - sort of mirroring. I think she’s trying to understand body language since she does not get it. She doesn’t know what is, and what is not, appropriate. She once said how she enjoyed making my fathers younger brother squirm (she belived because he fancied her. In reality he may have felt deeply uncomfortable—Asian, so this was not the “done thing”! Actually not the “done thing” in any context!)

A real flirt, she was good looking (oh how she liked to talk about how young she always looked) so I believe she got away with it. Or maybe most people are just too polite to say much! Some men probably enjoyed her intense stares too… given few normal women probably do this, maybe they thought she was enraptured with them. My husband, on first meeting her, found her staring bizarre, inappropriate and ugly. He gets it.

no true notion of the emotion “love”. Unable to read body language/inappropriate body language. Is that familiar to anyone?

Just looking back in to send love and solidarity to all. You sound like fantastic people, despite - not because of - the parenting. It's hard to exactly describe the sense of reassurance and emotional balm that comes from reading here that it wasn't just one's own experience. My heart goes out to you all.

With a situation that I am currently going through, it is becoming more clear than before that nothing has changed (nor ever will). My hardships are her entertainment and she delights in them.

I always knew it, even as a small child; but it still saddens me. Currently impossible to go NC, but am doing my best to endure with open eyes and supply as little NP-fodder as possible.

Strength and love to you. x

Body thanks for your kind words.
I know what you mean about "scrutiny".
I always feel physically uncomfortable in front of my mother, in the summer if I wear shorts or a skimpy dress she will make comments- she used to wolf whistle at my young DD wearing a swimsuit- even when she was 6 or 7.
Whenever she is around I wear baggy clothes, it's a really icky feeling- my mother has never seen me in underwear or a short summer skirt.

I agree about breaking the cycle- it takes courage and work.
My sister is also a narc, her daughter ( an adult) and I have been working on parallel paths to make sure the generational wounds go no further.
My lovely niece sent me this -

Love that 😍

This is such a refreshing thread.
A total antidote from the usual comments that romanticise mothers.
"She is the only mother you have", " love her while you can", " I wish I could have just one more day with my mother now that she is gone, "she does her best"
All that does is make those of us with narc mothers feel bad about speaking truthfully- or even to blame for the dysfunction.
I am truly sorry for anyone who has lost their mother- I have lost a parent so I understand the pain, but the truth is some mothers are difficult people. This whole candy coating we use to excuse toxicity doesn't wash with me.

My DM's narcissism was not the result of her childhood trauma or anything that happened to her. She was much adored and huge allowances were made for her. But even as a child apparently whatever she had (things, attention) it was never enough. She was jealous of her siblings all her life. She just didn't grow up.

She used to do the broadcast thing to, on and on about how wonderful she was so whatever she did (which wasn't alot) would always be through the filter of how she was better/prettier/not as fat/more intelligent/not common than whoever. Whatever happened to me, nothing was as bad as the slightest thing happening to her. But she used the bad things that happened to me to laugh about with her friends. She was constantly jealous of me and others and couldn't feel happy for anyone but particularly me.

She was incapable of any emotion other than jealously. Spiteful, soulless woman.

My mother was the eldest when my aunt arrived she was eaten up with jealousy. My grandparents lovely people were out of their depth. My aunt a sweet woman could never fathom it either. My aunt and uncle worked hard to make a home in London my mother then raged at the value of their home in Wimbledon, probably still does. My mother played at a few jobs over the years, boutiques guess where her wages went. My aunt worked for BT full time for 40 years my uncle British rail. When my aunt got cancer twice mother had tests for the same. She was even jealous of that.

@Body Interesting about the reference/possible connection to childhood trauma. My mother definitely grew up on an abusive household. Her father was a womanising alcoholic who used to come home and beat my grandmother following his pub sessions. He moved another woman in and had two further children under the same roof as my GM and his existing children - yet my mother idolised him, like almost Stockholm Syndrome. My late uncle absolutely hated him and told me how he used to regularly beat all the children too and ruled the house with fear and an iron fist. But bizarrely my mother held her father up as the perfect parent. She used to quote him frequently and placed great value on the fact that he was a stickler for good manners and things being done properly. I was often told that he wouldn’t have tolerated my behaviour like she did and it was a good thing he wasn’t alive to see what an awful granddaughter I was.

And the staring - yes! She did this far more to my DD. So much so that DD confided in me that she felt very uncomfortable with her. Most people tend to look away if they’re caught staring but mother never did and she was also obsessed with DD’s development during puberty as she was with mine at the time. Always asking about whether had she started periods and openly discussing her breast development in front of DH and DS and occasionally poking, pinching and prodding her in sensitive areas but vehemently denying it when I confronted her - again, having done the same when I was of a similar age.

justasking111 I am smiling at your post- stating how your mother was "even jealous" of your aunt having cancer- I totally get it.
My mother had a (benign) mole revoved from her face and I overhear her on the phone describing herself as a "cancer victim"
My mother told everyone I had tuberculosis as a child- I believed it too.
Only when I was older and saw my medical records that I found out it was recurrent bronchitis for several years ( my father was a heavy smoker in the house) I was tested for TB, but results were negative.
Most of all I dislike how my mother insults her friends behind their back.
She is a regular church goer- and has various church social events,
Every Sunday after church there is the broadcast- a low down on the church service, but mostly commenting on her friends.
"Who does she think she is"
"You should have seen what she was wearing"
" Mutton dressed as lamb"
" a dreadful hairstyle"
" I hate that woman"
" she has the ugliest face I have ever seen"
To their face my mother is sweetness and kitten like- including the fake limp.
Behind their backs she is toxic.

JohnPrescottsPyjamas interesting to note your discomfort over the body interest.
Same with my mother. I have no memories, but tons of clues have made me question......
When my DD was out of nappies my mother would come over and fish out all my DDS knickers from the laundry bin and wash them by hand. Never socks or other small items, just the knickers.
She would peg them outside facing the window of my neighbour, so he would see them from his living room. The position on the line was curious- it was the furthest from the house, and the line that was in shade, unlike my other lines that were in a sunny spot.
Honesty used to creep me out. I asked her to stop, but she would feign offence, saying " I'm just a grandma trying to help". It actually got to the stage that I would pick out my DDs pants from the laundry pile before she came, and stuff then in the machine for a normal wash when she left.
Needless to say my mother has never babysat my children, or been left alone with them.

Much more food for thought!

@speakout lovely pic. Out of interest, is your narc sis the eldest? My sister is a mini narc (not as bad as my mum). Eldest. Maybe not cushioned so much from her influence as my brother or me. Sister has gone NC with our mum since finds her so awful. Yet bizarrely she has so many of those same traits as her! Tho she would simply not know or see this (this not understanding seems common theme of NPD). Which then leads to a mental twist of wondering - (given they don’t see) am I not seeing myself for who I am either??? Thankfully we are very different, so I do hope not!

Also speakout - snap about the bitching. As a child, every social event would end with a bitchy session. I honestly thought this was simply what people did. Until I realised they didn’t. Lookist yes (their dreadful style, hair, body, did you see how much they ate, disgusting) less intelligent than her etc etc. snap. To their face, such a delightful companion. Pillar of society (she was a teacher and church goer).

@JohnPrescottsPyjamas my mother grew up in a war zone (b 1939) rather than familial violence. But I have read NPD is a mix of trauma and “spoiling”— or overly bigging up the child (which I believe my distraught grandmother did - my mums dad died in the war). This “over” doing it (spoiling for want of a better word) sounds like it marks the mum of @user1471538283 . Whatever the case, they are like toddlers emotionally and have NOT grown up. Apparently their brains ARE different - stunted aspects.

jealousy absolutely marks who my mum is. She was horribly jealous of my sister. She simply put me down. I thought I was quite physically hopeless since she insisted I wasn’t well a lot (not TB but similar things). I didn’t even imagine I was physically capable of , say, getting pregnant since I was so broken. She once said she liked ill people. I thought this was compassion. I now realise it is was (as much?) to do with power - she liked being the strong capable one. She was incredibly dominant. Thought she also did the pathetic thing - eg told me she was scared of me, scared of my sister. Etc. (Reality was she was/is a very scary alcoholic and even when not drinking she RAGES!! I really hate shouting, to give comparison.)

boy they fuck with your minds. Solidarity! And thanks for sharing stories!!!

ps @JohnPrescottsPyjamas soo many comparisons including strange interest in puberty. She actually didn’t want me to go through puberty (made her feel old) so I had to hide all evidence. Baggy tops. Never asked for a bra. Shudder at the thought! Never had any sanitary protection. Never told her I ever even got a period. I was trying to be a little prepubescent girl for her…

This is so interesting Body.
And I so relate to the bitchy thing. I too thought that was normal, if we had visitors or went to visit relatives there would be a huge disection and tearing apart of people.
" Did you see the dirt on her window ledge"
" what a filthy bathroom"
" what a size auntie sue is, yet she stuffs har face with cakes.
Yes- I thought this is how everyone behaved, it was all I knew.
Yes my sister is the eldest ( we are two), and I never really understood what happened.
My sister left home at 14 to live with her boyfriend.
I remember lots of tears, family rows, I didn't really understand what was going on- I was so young.
My sister married at 16 ( without parents consent) and immediately emigrated to a distant place- it would be 10 years before our mother and her would see each other again.
My sister is a clone of our mother- also heavily into the church and an upstanding member of the community but bitches behind the back- and does the whole making up illness thing.
It is just all so toxic, and it is just now I am getting down to the brass tacks of my own healing- issues with codependancy ( now called self love deficit disorder) and complex ptsd.

@speakout ahhhhh, yes, sympathy. My mother was also incredibly nasty about other people’s houses (dust, mess, untidiness).

Yet she would always make a big play of complementing the host’s house on arrival, always the wonderful guest. Full on “sincerity”. But then a big passionate bitch about them, their hostessing, their cleanliness (!), their looks, on the way home.

she was incredibly house proud and always finding things to clean. No sitting on sofas with jeans as children. No food beyond dining table. Keep curtains closed to protect carpets from fading (seriously!). It was like a museum. Clearly a need for control! Bingo: another pillar of this disorder?

”aunty stuffing face with cakes” exactly sort of thing she’d say too. Funny, not so funny to read this from you too. It made me so self conscious about eating! Hence my serious eating disorder from 14-34… and tbh I’m still not fully ok!

Given many of us have spent great chunks of our lives really emotionally supporting - and desperately trying to help our narc mums to get better/be happy/feel ok - always to our own detriment, and with zero success!, im really interested to read that codependency is now called “self love deficit disorder”. This really resonates. And is a lovely place to begin, thank you!

Body I think the truth is these people can't be helped. They have little capacity for introspection, would balk at the idea that they need help.
I don't think it's even worth trying.
im really interested to read that codependency is now called “self love deficit disorder”. This really resonates. And is a lovely place to begin, thank you!

I think self love and compassion are key in healing- it is the thing that makes the biggest single difference.
I have just finished a block of therapy ( I have has several blocks of counselling in my life), but this last one has been absolutely profound. Gestalt therapy, really challenging, painful, hard work, but led me through to find the nub of my anxiety, pain, emotional disregulation.
At the heart of it was my mother, or rather the relationship I have with my mother. The therapy also led me to what the healing journey may look like, and what needs to be done.
Finding self love and compassion. Working with my inner child, reparenting. Observing my feelings without judgement.
I can honestly say I am excited about the unfolding relationship I have with my self.
I still have some shit going on in my life- who doesn't, but finding this calm and safe place within myself is transforming.

On a lighter note, recently my mother questioned me for having straight hair.
As a child and yound adult my hair was naturally wavy- over the years the curl has disappeared and is now straight.
I am happy with either.
My mother berated me last week for "throwing away a gift from my father" ( who also had curly hair) and how upsetting it was for her to see my hair straight.

Like I consciously decided to have straight hair?....
I tried to explain I don't get to choose how my hair comes out of my head- but already she is on broadcast mode " Oh when I met my husband ( always calls him this never " your father") he always had lovely curly hair, he was so handsome you know, and so kind- but then I am so good at choosing a husband- pity you didn't pick that up from me".

OMG @speakout it’s always “my husband” , “my mother”, even “my children” here, too. Not your dad, grandmother, you guys, etc.

And how dare you throw away her husband’s gift, indeed. Ug.

can I ask more about the gestalt therapy you’ve done, or any books you could recommend?

i did put myself in for a form of therapy that was supposed to help with PTSD since I thought that’s what I had. But I can’t claim to have been raped, or been in a bomb zone. No one in my circle was murdered. I dont detach from reality. I don’t have panic attacks. So I wasn’t sure if I had PTSD per se. Plus, it was very expensive!

Then again, I am not sure I give my own needs much heed. I do keep my negative emotions in check in real life and cannot stand “burdening” others with negativity. (This is why they all went “inwards” manifesting in serious ED)

Some of things I have discussed here, I have never discussed in real life. My heart also goes out to you all!

Body- I don't discuss these things in real life- it is harder to speak to family and friends.
I am no expert in Gestalt thrapy. I have always liked the idea of talking therapy, and have a local carers support organisation which really helpful including free counselling. I am very grateful to receive this support

My mother did the "my husband", "my marriage", "my mother", "my house" thing as well!

She also did bizarre things like knit clothes for distant neighbors grandchildren (that she didnt even know) and then moan that they were not grateful/grateful enough. She did it for attention, to be it be about her.

Like another poster said up thread they all thought they were so special but they are all the same!

It does eventually come back to bite them. My DM didnt have one single friend at her funeral. Those friends (that she also bitched about) and men she spent money on, put before me constantly didnt turn up.

This is said with some lightness but I got the gift of curly hair from my father but as he has always had short hair that didn't bother her. She got so annoyed with me that I couldn't brush the curl out. It just made it thick and frizzy. As a teen I wouldn't put a brush through my hair except after washing it. That infuriated her for some reason. 🙄😵

Hah @user1471538283 snap re the presents. Have we found another trait?! In the case of my mother, her presents are always weird, a bit horrible, a bargain she had picked up somewhere, nothing you’d actually want, showing no knowledge of you or your interests.

However, she’d ask after these things, repetitively check you were wearing them, get annoyed if people “lost” them or didn’t show enough appreciation. Of course, it makes the receiver sound like a spoilt brat to say any of this! But they are the centre of the universe, so why would anyone else’s likes matter?

Oh god yes! I’m so sorry, I keep jumping into this thread, but yet again another instantly recognisable trait.

Every birthday, we would go through this farce of, “I’m giving you a cheque this year, I hope you don’t mind, but then you can get what you want.”

It was always for £50. Made out to both DH and me - apparently done so he didn’t get “jealous” Not that he would have done and it was supposedly my birthday! She would then expect to be taken out for a meal - and I always ended up paying and as the meal invariably cost more than £50 anyway, she might as well have cut out the middleman.

One year, her new oven from a well known high street store kept going wrong following poor instillation. DH ended up writing a letter of complaint because, tbf, the service was pretty shoddy. As way of an apology, the retailer sent £50 in gift cards by way of recompense. My birthday was a month later. When I opened the card, she’d put the vouchers in a present and made a big fuss about her generosity!

This is possibly making me sound like an ungrateful brat, but all I ever wanted was a small thoughtful personal gift from her. I didn’t care about the value, just something that she had taken the time over and thought that I might like. A pretty scarf or colourful beach bag. You get what I mean? She was very comfortably off but was an odd mixture. She would spent hundreds on shoes and accessories for herself but couldn’t resist a tatty freebie.

But when her birthday came around it had to be the full works. I lost count of the times that my gifts were treated with a sneer or derision. The weeks leading up to the event were incredibly stressful as I tried to find something that would be acceptable in her eyes. Invariably my offerings were dismissed as “dirt collectors” or “oh, I’ve just given one of those to the charity shop”

Every Mothers Day had to be about her. They lived 100 miles away.
If I ever didn't come top in school 'we've done everything for you and this is how you repay us'.
I had severe allergies when pregnant and she said I was doing it on purpose.
DS was slightly behind and she thought he should go to a special school. He was 3 at the time.
Would open presents then hand them back saying she wouldn't use them.
Hated my ex as he didn't have a degree. Nor did she!
Everything came with a 'cost'.
Would arrange to have my kids for a week in the summer holidays (I worked full time) then when we got there with 2 very excited children she'd be pissed. So I'd have to bring them home and she'd ring the next day really angry saying how much I'd hurt her and what would people say.
It's only now that I'm days away from being a nanna that I'm having to reanalyse what's normal.

Mum, my baby's here - I just got out of surgery.
"I'll call you back tomorrow, I'm just dishing up my dinner"
She didn't

@JohnPrescottsPyjamas identical experience here “She would spent hundreds on shoes and accessories for herself but couldn’t resist a tatty freebie.”

and you sum up my thoughts completely here: “all I ever wanted was a small thoughtful personal gift from her. I didn’t care about the value, just something that she had taken the time over and thought that I might like. A pretty scarf or colourful beach bag. You get what I mean?” YES I know exactly what you mean. What head fuckery over gifts from you/to you.

@haveyouopenedyourbowelstoday so many parallels here too. Expected top of class. Yet no degree herself. And bitched about my husband not being good enough since he hadn’t finished his…

also this “ds was slightly behind and she thought he should go to a special school. He was 3 at the time.” (She said she thought my first was behind because he wasn’t doing what “her children” were doing. He was 2 weeks! As a new mum I trusted her, was so worried. Recall taking him to doctor to check whether he might have downs. He is now at a SS grammar… she really spoilt those early days.)

ditto everything at a cost. Hell, ditto pissed.

@VickerishAllsort god! unbelievable! Well, no, fully believable. Sadly.

We need medals, one and all!!

As a new mother yourself, these comments are so hurtful too. You so want to get everything right yourself and be the perfect parent - that these horrors weren’t! - so you’re particularly vulnerable and sensitive to criticism.

I was always being told that I was potty trained at 6 months, slept through the night immediately, could read by the time I started school and was able to use a knife and fork properly at 18 months, so why couldn’t my own children? I remember my 6 YO DD being really keen for her GM to listen to her read, which should have been such a lovely experience for both of them. My mother proceeded to correct DD’s pronunciation, criticise her lack of expression and when DD was trying to sound words phonetically, mother jumped straight in and gave her no time to work it out for herself, so I very much doubt I was a fluent reader at 5!

She used to regularly tell me that she had no pain relief during labour whatsoever which wasn’t strictly true as she also let slip that I was delivered under full anaesthetic and she never had any other children.